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Old 17.04.2017, 13:02
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Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

My partner (not married) is looking to quit his job & join me in Switzerland (ZG) as job hunting from overseas has proved fruitless. It seems that being without a Swiss permit is a big problem in practice (even though we are both EU/Brits). I work full time with a 5 yr B permit.

If he comes here, gets his name added to my rental contract, and then immediately registers for a L permit:

1. As a job seeker, how many times can the 90 day L permit be renewed?

2. As a job seeker, what are the L permit income/wealth requirements to prove he has the means to support himself? e.g. how much CHF in savings and/or could I "pledge" my support?

3. Alternatively if he continued working his UK job ("working from home" in Switzerland, with travel back and forth between UK/Switzerland), could he get an L or B permit this way?

4. Under scenario #3, would he need to prove he was physically in Switzerland a minimum time per every 90 days, to maintain/renew L or B permit status?

Many thanks in advance for any advice!
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Old 17.04.2017, 14:08
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

First, you need to check your rental contract allows 2 people to live in your property. If not, then he can't stay there.

1. As an EU national he can be here for up to 3 months without registering while he looks for work. If he doesn't find a job in that time then he can apply for an L permit for another 3 months. Whether it's extendable beyond that I don't know. It used to be done for up to a year, but I haven't seen that mentioned on the official website for some time now.

2. The general figure to work to is CHF100 per day so for the permit he'd need around CHF9,000.

3. This is sort of a grey area as the Swiss have some odd rules about who's responsible for what regarding some insurances that an employer usually pays. It may be that he'd have to apply to be self-employed here or start a company of his own here and work through that.

4. He would have to spend at least 183 days here to keep any permit. Assuming he got a B permit he can only be out of the country for a maximum of 6 months at a time.

Bear in mind that since the vote to curb immigration the Swiss government is pressing employers even more than before to hire people who already live and work here, i.e. have permits. Many employers are now saying only B/C permit holders need apply so even if he gets here he may not have any luck with only an L. It really depends on what skills/experience he has to offer to make him stand out from other candidates.

A possible alternative would be for you to apply for a concubine permit for him, but you would need to agree to be financially responsible for him for 5 years.
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Old 18.04.2017, 10:50
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

Thanks for the responses

1. While is legally able to job-hunt here without a permit for 3 months, the issue is that (in practice) he needs a permit to be considered for a job! I will try speaking to the Migration Office regarding L permit renewals.

2. Great thanks, I couldn't find this anywhere online.

3. I think you are referring the the requirement to have accident insurance as well as the basic health insurance (krankenkasse), which we would get.

4. I was aware of the 6 month absence limit, but sounds like this is a single contiguous period of absence exceeding 183 days, rather than cumulative, which is helpful (e.g. if he was just here every weekend to start).

Unfortunately, I don't think a concubine permit would work, as we don't have long enough history of cohabiting, nor any exceptional circumstances to bring before a judge. We looked at that.
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Old 18.04.2017, 12:21
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

3. It's not just the health insurance side, but things like pension contributions.

https://www.ch.ch/en/social-insuranc...ign-nationals/

https://www.ch.ch/en/becoming-self-employed/

https://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu/en/home...efta-area.html

Often here to pay all these things yourself as a self-employer business person you may need to show you have more than 1 client for your business, i.e. 2 or 3 or more. Otherwise you are considered an employee of that single client and the Swiss expect them to pay for the things employers normally pay for. As said, it's a bit of a grey area when the employer isn't based in Switzerland so have a word with the cantonal migration and taxation offices to see what they say. It's just that we've never had many people doing this type of work reporting back to the forum on steps needed, success of getting a self-employed permit, etc, so not a lot of info to work with.
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Old 20.04.2017, 18:10
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

Just wanted to report back, after speaking (by phone) to the Zug Migration Office (041 728 5050). I should say, that the lady answered the phone right away, was very helpful, and patient with my German language skills.

(i) They will only give an L permit (job seekers) after the first 3 months, not before. This then lasts for 3 months.

(ii) The lady would not actually say "yes the L permit can be renewed after every 3 months", because she said it depends on the facts and circumstances: whether you have enough money to support yourself, whether you are actually looking for a job, the rules at the time, etc. The Migration Office website suggests that beyond 12 months is difficult...

(iii) Being a student doesn't make residence permits any more possible, unless you are studying at a university in Switzerland (it is a possibility that my partner will enroll in a distance learning Masters course with a British university - but seems this won't help at all).

(iv) She did suggest that we apply for a Lebenspartner (living-together partner) permit. She seemed to think that we could apply for this now even while he is still in England. I explained that we had not actually (officially) lived together in the past i.e. no formal documents to show this, despite being together 6 years. She said the application could, for example, be supported with photos to prove the length of the relationship.

QUESTION - can anyone (perhaps who speaks better German than me) point be to where I can get the application for the Lebenspartner permit on the Kanton Zug Migration Office website? Is it a basis for getting a B permit?


Regarding the self-employment - I don't think that is viable. He will not be self-employed. He will either be employed (in his UK job) or entirely unemployed, until such time as he obtains a Swiss job. The requirement for the B permit only mentions health and accident insurance. I am aware of the special EU social security arrangements for people on cross-border assignments for up to 2 years, but not sure his employer would give us the necessary certificate for this, as it would not be an official overseas posting.
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Old 20.04.2017, 18:36
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

At this link see the sub-link for E1:

https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/sicherhe...atsangehoerige

Edit:
The first document (Merkblatt) contains the instructions. The forms are documents two through five. For Word, fill out the second and fourth documents or, for a pdf, fill out the third and fifth documents:

https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/sicherhe...aetige-rentner

Last edited by Mullhollander; 20.04.2017 at 19:04.
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Old 20.04.2017, 18:39
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

Alsion, it doesn't matter if you haven't lived together before. The main thing as far as the Swiss are concerned is that it's a long term, committed relationship which will hopefully lead to marriage. If you can provide things like holiday photos together, hotel booking receipts, flights for holidays together, that sort of thing, it may do the trick. What permit type he gets depends on what you have - if it's a B then he'll get a B, if you have an L he'll get an L. However, as I said you have to agree to be financially responsible for him for 5 years so will have to show you earn enough to support both of you otherwise the permit won't be granted.

No, an L permit cannot be extended beyond a year since he'd already have had 3 months with no permit and a year with one so if he can't find a job within 15 months - well too bad as far as the Swiss are concerned.
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Old 20.04.2017, 18:57
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

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Alsion, it doesn't matter if you haven't lived together before. The main thing as far as the Swiss are concerned is that it's a long term, committed relationship which will hopefully lead to marriage. If you can provide things like holiday photos together, hotel booking receipts, flights for holidays together, that sort of thing, it may do the trick. What permit type he gets depends on what you have - if it's a B then he'll get a B, if you have an L he'll get an L. However, as I said you have to agree to be financially responsible for him for 5 years so will have to show you earn enough to support both of you otherwise the permit won't be granted.
Thanks this is great info. Are the application documents online? I couldn't find them anywhere. I can struggle by with forms in German, but searching for things in the first place is difficult.

I hope we have kept enough things over the last 6 years...! Good job I kept the same email account all this time.
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Old 20.04.2017, 19:08
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

Yes, any e-mail communications will help too.

Mullhollander has given you links for the right documents.
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Old 21.04.2017, 10:22
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

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At this link see the sub-link for E1:
Thanks Mullhollander, I confess I had I missed your helpful post with the links, this is brilliant.

I went through all the forms, and just called the Migration Office for clarification on a few points. I can't believe how helpful they are, she even remembered me from when I called yesterday.

In case it helps someone:

Nachweis der Sicherstellung der für den Lebensunterhalt erforderlichen finanziellen Mittel (Steuerrechnungen, Bankbelege, Rentenbestätigungen, Lohnbelege etc.)
This asks for evidence of financial resources to support oneself. I wasn't clear whether this meant me or my partner, but the Migration Office said provide both. (Essentially it seems we should send them everything that might be useful.)

Nachweis finanzieller Verpflichtungen (Alimente, Schuld- und Darlehenszinsen etc.) oder schriftliche Erklärung, dass keine Verpflichtungen bestehen
This asks for evidence of financial obligations. So they confirmed that this would include our UK mortgages, but also said to provide details that my property is rented out. Obviously my partner currently lives in his flat, as he isn't yet here in Switzerland.

Kopie Arbeitsvertrag u n d aktuelle Arbeitsbestätigung bei Erwerbstätigkeit im Aus-land
This asks for a copy of the employment contract / proof of employment. When I explained that he would be "working from home" in Switzerland while job seeking here, she said this was sensible i.e. it didn't seem to be required that he quits his job before applying for the permit.

Schriftliche Ausführungen über Art und Dauer der Beziehung
This means written statements describing the relationship and duration. I would expect we would also provide as much evidence as we could to support this (photos, receipts in joint names, etc going back over the years). However, she laughed when I said would this typically be hundreds of pages long. (I wonder if this would be a stricter hurdle if we were non-EU or unemployed, but the Migration official seemed relaxed about it)

Thank you for everyone's help. I will report back on the forum as we go through the process.
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Old 21.04.2017, 12:41
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Re: Questions re L permits: renewals, wealth requirements

Yes, please do. It's always useful to have up to date reports of how things are going as the cantons do change how they view such things. A report from a few years ago may be totally different to what you experience so it's all good info for others to peruse.

Good luck.
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