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Old 17.04.2017, 22:11
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C permit for foreign student?

Hello everyone!

If I have studied 5 years in Switzerland (Bachelor & Master) with the right for working ca. 15 hours per week (or something?) during studies, will that make me - an EU citizen - eligible for a permanent C permit? Because it is 5 years after all, but I have heard someone say I must work an additional 2 years after studies with an ordinary B work permit before I can apply for the C permit. Does anyone know anything about this?

And last question: When I have lived in Switzerland for a total 10 years (5 years studying and 5 years working), will I be eligible for applying for Swiss citizenship? Or doesn't the years as a student count in the "10 years required for Swiss citizenship" or "5 years for C permit"?

Thanks in advance!
(I'm beginning on my bachelor next Autumn, so I'm just planning a bit )
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Old 17.04.2017, 22:20
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

An official site for permit information.
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Old 17.04.2017, 22:22
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

It didn't give me answers
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Old 17.04.2017, 22:23
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

Welcome, and good for you, wanting to plan ahead. As you can probably imagine, many other students have had the same kind if questions. You can find a lot if information on www.ch.ch, and by using the search function on this forum (top right-hand corner of the screen).
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Old 17.04.2017, 22:26
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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Welcome, and good for you, wanting to plan ahead. As you can probably imagine, many other students have had the same kind if questions. You can find a lot if information on www.ch.ch, and by using the search function on this forum (top right-hand corner of the screen).
Hey, thank you!

The threads I've seen were directed towards non-EU nationals, so I believe they have a more difficult path than me. ch.ch didn't specifically mention the issue either.
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Old 17.04.2017, 22:29
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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It didn't give me answers
I don't give answers. I don't know the answers. I give links to sites which give links to other information. As much regarding permits is changing and you are years from having a chance of a C permit, I just try to show you where the new information might be when you get around to needing it.

Last edited by Longbyt; 18.04.2017 at 10:52. Reason: Removed a comma!
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  #7  
Old 18.04.2017, 07:42
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

As Longbyt says the rules for all types of permits are currently being reviewed by the Swiss government so no one can say for sure what the situation will be in a few years' time.

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

Time spent in Swiss schools/universities between the ages of 8 and 18 will count double for citizenship purposes. If you're outside that age then it's still 10 years.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/naturali...p-law/38821516
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Old 11.08.2020, 00:09
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

So how did it go? Do the student B permit years count towards c permit or do you need to be on a regular work B permit for 2 years so that it can count?
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Old 11.08.2020, 01:37
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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So how did it go? Do the student B permit years count towards c permit or do you need to be on a regular work B permit for 2 years so that it can count?

The latter, afaik.
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Old 11.08.2020, 01:44
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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As Longbyt says the rules for all types of permits are currently being reviewed by the Swiss government so no one can say for sure what the situation will be in a few years' time.

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

Time spent in Swiss schools/universities between the ages of 8 and 18 will count double for citizenship purposes. If you're outside that age then it's still 10 years.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/naturali...p-law/38821516

But surely someone on a student B permit - not living in Switzerland on a dependent B permit of parents who work - cannot simply apply for a C permit after being on a student B permit for 10 years (let's imagine for some years of secondary school through a graduate degree), and apply for citizenship after that?
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Old 11.08.2020, 06:44
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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But surely someone on a student B permit - not living in Switzerland on a dependent B permit of parents who work - cannot simply apply for a C permit after being on a student B permit for 10 years (let's imagine for some years of secondary school through a graduate degree), and apply for citizenship after that?
You can't be a foreign student here for 10 years. The max you can study here is 8 years. Then you must either find a job here or leave the country.

Also I believe you must have a job for at least 2 years on a B permit after graduating from a Swiss university to be able to apply for a C.
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Old 11.08.2020, 09:53
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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You can't be a foreign student here for 10 years. The max you can study here is 8 years. Then you must either find a job here or leave the country.

Also I believe you must have a job for at least 2 years on a B permit after graduating from a Swiss university to be able to apply for a C.
The first part is not true in practice.
I am still a "student" but have been in the country for over 8 years on a yearly renewable B-permit (Non-EU).
I've done my Masters + PhD + Postdoc (which is considered a student B-permit as well). Ninth year renewal is coming up in a few months.
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Old 11.08.2020, 09:58
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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The first part is not true in practice.
I am still a "student" but have been in the country for over 8 years on a yearly renewable B-permit (Non-EU).
I've done my Masters + PhD + Postdoc (which is considered a student B-permit as well). Ninth year renewal is coming up in a few months.
Isn't PHD and Post-Doc considered as employment?
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Old 11.08.2020, 10:22
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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Isn't PHD and Post-Doc considered as employment?
In terms of the B-permit, no they are not, they are still student permits.

The reason for this is that student permits are not subject any permit limits/quotas, so there is no limit to how many that can be issued.

Unfortunately for me, and a few thousand other folk in Switerzerland (generally academics), we're caught in a limbo where we can never get C-permits, never be naturalized and still can't be here legally (since you aren't allowed to be here for over 8 years on a student permit). Although as I said before, this last point is moot because I'm still around.
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Old 11.08.2020, 10:32
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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Isn't PHD and Post-Doc considered as employment?
PhD is surely by its definition education. Post-Doc is as well. Stays for education are deemed to be temporary and thus not are normally not eligible for permit C. They are even made to sign pledges that they intend to leave the country at the end of there stay. But on the other hand they have preferred access to the Swiss job market at the end of the education.

But according SEM guidelines Chapter 3.5.2.1, if an EU/EFTA PhD/Post-Doc is employed for at least 15h/week this period of stay is regarded as regular stay for regular C after 10 years (5 for certain EU/EFTA nationals) as soon as they get a regular job in the industry or administration. Not sure if you can use this years to further invoke the 2 years rule. But I think that is possible.

As noted bellow bei NichtsBesonderes: SEM guidelines Chapter 3.5.2.1 for EU/EFTA PhD/Post-Doc only applies for regular C, not for early C based on good integration.

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[U]
If I have studied 5 years in Switzerland (Bachelor & Master) with the right for working ca. 15 hours per week (or something?) during studies, will that make me - an EU citizen - eligible for a permanent C permit? Because it is 5 years after all, but I have heard someone say I must work an additional 2 years after studies with an ordinary B work permit before I can apply for the C permit.
Being an EU-citizen does give special privileges towards permit C. In general you need need 10 years of regular stay. Stays purely for education do normally not count as they are considered as temporary (stays as a depended are not considered as stay purely for education). Stays for education purposes do count if you have a permit B for at least 2 years right after the end of the education. Save the special rules for working PhD/Post-Docs (see above).
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 11.08.2020 at 13:54. Reason: Added the fact that SEM guidelines Chapter 3.5.2.1 only applies to EU/EFTA students and only for regular C.
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Old 11.08.2020, 12:19
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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PhD is surely by its definition education. Post-Doc is as well. Stays for education are deemed to be temporary and thus not are normally not eligible for permit C. They are even made to sign pledges that they intend to leave the country at the end of there stay. But on the other hand they have preferred access to the Swiss job market at the end of the education.

But according SEM guidelines Chapter 3.5.2.1, if a PhD/Post-Doc is employed for at least 15h/week this period of stay is regarded as regular stay as soon as they get a regular job in the industry or administration. Not sure if you can use this years to further invoke the 2 years rule. But I think that is possible.



Being an EU-citizen does give special privileges towards permit C. In general you need need 10 years of regular stay. Stays purely for education do normally not count as they are considered as temporary (stays as a depended are not considered as stay purely for education). Stays for education purposes do count if you have a permit B for at least 2 years right after the end of the education. Save the special rules for working PhD/Post-Docs (see above).
Having talked to Migrationsamt about this extensively, and read the rules also extensively... PhD and Post-doc are student permits, regardless of whether you're employed, therefore the 2-year rule applies, and you must be on a non-education permit for 2 full years before C eligibility. Which I agree sucks a lot, especially for academics, especially with regards to "post-doc" somehow being an educational permit.

Also EU *does* help you with C permit, it's 5 years instead of 10. A few third-party countries are also eligible for a 5-year C, and everyone else can apply early (after 5 years) on basis of good integration. I've also asked if "on basis of good integration" applications aren't subject to the 2-year post-education rule... And of course they are. :/
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Old 11.08.2020, 12:37
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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Also EU *does* help you with C permit, it's 5 years instead of 10. :/
No EU does not help. Point me to the exact law, ordinance, bilateral treaty, SEM guideline chapter, or Migrationamt leaflet where it says so. Specially for Romanians, Hungarians, or Polish people. Regular C after 5 years, not the good integration C which is not bound to nationality.

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PhD and Post-doc are student permits, regardless of whether you're employed, therefore the 2-year rule applies, and you must be on a non-education permit for 2 full years before C eligibility.
SEM guidelines Chapter 3.5.2.1 disagrees with that point of view. What is the the exact verbatim answer from the Migrationamt why SEM guideline chapter 3.5.2.1 which is very specific about PhD/Post-Doc and recognition of stay should not apply?
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Old 11.08.2020, 13:15
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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SEM guidelines Chapter 3.5.2.1 disagrees with that point of view. What is the the exact verbatim answer from the Migrationamt why SEM guideline chapter 3.5.2.1 which is very specific about PhD/Post-Doc and recognition of stay should not apply?
Seeing as scellers in in Zurich, it's also explicitly spelled out in the Migrationsamt ZH's practical directive on C permits (chapter 4.1.1 second paragraph). However it only applies to "normal" C permits which require 10 years residency (or 5 if you're from one of several EU countries which CH has a Niederlassungsvertrag with).

It doesn't seem to apply to a EU/EFTA academic who just switched to a regular job from the academia if they want a C permit based on good integration after 5 years, they would need to wait another 2 years (SEM handbook 3.5.3.2, first requirement; it doesn't differentiate between EU/EFTA and othe PhDs/postdocs).
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Old 11.08.2020, 13:23
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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Seeing as scellers in in Zurich, it's also explicitly spelled out in the Migrationsamt ZH's practical directive on C permits (chapter 4.1.1 second paragraph). However it only applies to "normal" C permits which require 10 years residency (or 5 if you're from one of several EU countries which CH has a Niederlassungsvertrag with).

It doesn't seem to apply to a EU/EFTA academic who just switched to a regular job from the academia if they want a C permit based on good integration after 5 years, they would need to wait another 2 years (SEM handbook 3.5.3.2, first requirement; it doesn't differentiate between EU/EFTA and othe PhDs/postdocs).
Again anecdotally; I have a few EU friends (France, Germany) who received C permits after 5 years of study (Masters and PhD). In fact, one of them tried to fight the permit and wanted to stay on a B and they would not let him and he was issued his C after 5 years.
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Old 11.08.2020, 13:50
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Re: C permit for foreign student?

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It doesn't seem to apply to a EU/EFTA academic who just switched to a regular job from the academia if they want a C permit based on good integration after 5 years, they would need to wait another 2 years (SEM handbook 3.5.3.2, first requirement; it doesn't differentiate between EU/EFTA and othe PhDs/postdocs).
Makes sense. As early C based on good integration is just a nice thing but not an actual right (It still cannot willy-nilly be denied if you fulfill all the set criteria and jump through all the hoops. That would against the protection against arbitrariness.)

But, I admit I overlooked that SEM guideline chapter 3.5.2.1 applies only to EU/EFTA students.
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