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Old 21.06.2017, 20:59
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My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

What can I do to get this visa approved so I can move on with my life and get over to Zurich?

I’m American and work as a 1099 independent contractor (paid through the US; still living in US but hopping back and forth on Shengen visa); fiancé is an EU citizen and makes a substantial management-level salary and bonus in Switzerland (currently lives there; B-permit but will get C-permit in 2018). Either one of us could self-support without a job for years on ready cash, and we have provided these bank statements to the cantonal authorities. We have also obtained and submitted a marriage license in the US (we were told via phone from the Zurich migration office that this would be accepted in lieu of the Certificate of Preparation of Marriage that is typically required for Swiss marriage prep, and that we should get approved no problem), my fingerprints and FBI background report, and my fiancé has signed an affidavit of support.

Why we don't want to get married (legally) in Switzerland:
1) It’s more difficult and you have to produce more documents, whereas the US just asks for ID and a signature.
2) My family has assets in the US we’re trying to protect with a prenup, which must be drafted in the US state in which my parents currently reside. This takes time and money, and it’s not done yet because our lawyers are slow. Better to do this right than rush it.
3) My parents have graciously offered to pay for the wedding and reception in my hometown area, and since we live in a major city metro area, this is an incredibly time- and cost- intensive undertaking, and most weddings take 12-18 months to plan and execute. We could separate the legal and religious/party elements, but would prefer to keep them aligned.

I’m sick of commuting on the Shengen visa and just want to live with my fiancé. It’s costing us monthly plane tickets, my continued rent in a major US city, and our sanity. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 21.06.2017, 21:12
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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What can I do to get this visa approved so I can move on with my life and get over to Zurich?

I’m American and work as a 1099 independent contractor (paid through the US; still living in US but hopping back and forth on Shengen visa); fiancé is an EU citizen and makes a substantial management-level salary and bonus in Switzerland (currently lives there; B-permit but will get C-permit in 2018). Either one of us could self-support without a job for years on ready cash, and we have provided these bank statements to the cantonal authorities. We have also obtained and submitted a marriage license in the US (we were told via phone from the Zurich migration office that this would be accepted in lieu of the Certificate of Preparation of Marriage that is typically required for Swiss marriage prep, and that we should get approved no problem), my fingerprints and FBI background report, and my fiancé has signed an affidavit of support.

Why we don't want to get married (legally) in Switzerland:
1) It’s more difficult and you have to produce more documents, whereas the US just asks for ID and a signature.
2) My family has assets in the US we’re trying to protect with a prenup, which must be drafted in the US state in which my parents currently reside. This takes time and money, and it’s not done yet because our lawyers are slow. Better to do this right than rush it.
3) My parents have graciously offered to pay for the wedding and reception in my hometown area, and since we live in a major city metro area, this is an incredibly time- and cost- intensive undertaking, and most weddings take 12-18 months to plan and execute. We could separate the legal and religious/party elements, but would prefer to keep them aligned.

I’m sick of commuting on the Shengen visa and just want to live with my fiancé. It’s costing us monthly plane tickets, my continued rent in a major US city, and our sanity. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
If you marry & live in CH under Swiss law, any assets you have before marriage or you inherit don't get split on a divorce . No need for a prenup.
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Old 21.06.2017, 21:34
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

I don't think you understand what the fiancé permit is meant for. It's for couples planning to marry here, not abroad. It's to allow a couple to come together to finalise the details of their Swiss wedding and go through the ceremony at their local civil registry office. Why Zurich told you a US marriage licence would be an acceptable substitute I don't know. You're marrying abroad so don't qualify for the permit. You will need to have the marrriage recognised and you should contact the Swiss embassy/consulate that deals with your area of the States to find out what documents you'll need to do this.

https://www.ch.ch/en/wedding-abroad/

How far along is the planning for the wedding? If still close to the 12-18 months then your fiancé could apply for a concubine permit for you which is the Swiss way of dealing with unmarried hetrosexual couples. They will need to agree to be financially responsible for you for 5 years, but that doesn't sound like it would be a problem and the fact that you do plan to marry will also count in your favour.

Otherwise, bite the bullet and do the legal stuff quickly in the US so your new spouse can then apply for a family reunification permit for you. Do the other wedding stuff later.
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Old 21.06.2017, 21:41
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

Getting married is only one day. It's the rest of your life that matters. I never have understood the faffing around some people go to.
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Old 21.06.2017, 22:26
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

1) Get married and move here

2) Move to the States and get married

3)......
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Old 21.06.2017, 22:48
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

Just get married, problem solved. Why all the hassle when it's so easy. And it's even reversible if need be. No wedding needs to be planned for 1.5 years. Just get a civil wedding (only one that's relevant anyway) and throw whatever massive fairytale thingy you want at a later point.
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Old 21.06.2017, 22:53
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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If you marry & live in CH under Swiss law, any assets you have before marriage or you inherit don't get split on a divorce .
Unless you choose to share them, but even then inherited stuff doesn't get split.

Tom
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Old 22.06.2017, 00:24
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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Getting married is only one day. It's the rest of your life that matters. I never have understood the faffing around some people go to.
Some people have been dreaming about and planning the "faffing" since they were old enough to play dress-up. Some people have ridiculous families that think weddings are the way to show the neighborhood who's got the bigger...bank account. Or something.

OP, it's as Medea said - the visa you are applying for is one to get married in Switzerland. If that's not what you want to do then you're out of luck unless you opt for concubine...but from what I've read here on EF, even that is not guaranteed - as the authorities want a good reason why you're not married or don't want to be married.

And now for the tough love. My then-boyfriend (now-husband) and I were long-distance USA to CH for almost 2 years before we got married in the States. Our bank accounts and jobs didn't allow us to fly back and forth every month, much less every other month. You're pretty lucky to be in such a position you can travel so often.

You and your fiancé need to think about your priorities. If you can't stand being apart any longer, just do the legal stuff now and worry about the party later. Tell your lawyers to hurry up, I'm sure you're paying them big bucks.

I know, it doesn't sound romantic and maybe it's not what you had envisioned. Life rarely unfolds in exactly the way we expect it to.

Congrats on your...hopefully upcoming wedding and best of luck to you.
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Old 22.06.2017, 01:44
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

@Medea Fleecestealer: Good point. We asked for the concubine forms and were told to fill out the family reunification forms. My initial form said I’d self-support, but then my fiancé ultimately signed the affidavit of support, so maybe it’s the concubine we applied for? Not sure if these processes are the same, because there does not appear to be a specific “fiancé” or “concubine” form (and that’s confusing!). Planning is anywhere from 6-12 months away, but I’m more concerned about getting over to Zurich than planning some fairytale one-day wedding celebration.

@Samaire13: Unfortunately, in my Eastern Seaboard metro area, the "typical" (i.e. one of the ones you see on TheKnot.com with 100-150 people, Pinterest-perfect -- anything but realistically typical) wedding here takes 12-18 months to plan --- if you can even book a reception venue within that time frame. Crazy, no?

@st2lemans: Yes; we may not stay in Switzerland forever, though, and I don't want any potential bad surprises. Without getting into details, there are some gray areas in the US that I've seen exploited, and given the difficulty Americans appear to have with Swiss bank accounts >$10k, I want to tread carefully and watch out for unintended consequences.

@3Wishes: Thank you and yes! I’m happy to hear that your 2 years of long-distance worked out for you so positively! Yes, I count myself incredibly lucky to be in my current position (and even more to have found such a wonderful partner); I’m honestly shocked that the visa is not as easy to obtain as it appeared. I thought Switzerland just wanted to see the $$ and know that someone wasn’t going to end up on social welfare, and then all was good to go. And if we mistakenly got the fiancé application instead of the concubine application, I’m surprised that we would have been steered in that direction since we have made it clear from the start that we were getting married in the US. We will go for the legal wedding as soon as we can, if all other routes fail. Happy to hear you got over OK. Thanks
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Old 22.06.2017, 08:33
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

Americans have no difficulty with Swiss bank accounts over $10,000, they simply have to be reported on a FBAR form. The difficulty comes in trying to get a Swiss bank account in the first place. You, and your spouse if you have joint accounts, will have to sign W-9 forms to allow the bank to send the account info on to the IRS. Only UBS, Credit Suisse and PostFinance accept American clients now.

Getting a Swiss permit is never easy unless you're an EU national or married to one. Trying for anything else is always a risk and certainly not guaranteed. It may be that as you plan to marry in the States the Swiss authorities see no need or reason for you to be here on a permanent basis before the marriage.

I don't think there are different forms, it all comes under family reunification. Most likely it's your marital status which the Swiss authorities put on the form for internal use that governs what it actually is in their eyes.
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Old 22.06.2017, 08:59
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

Hiya, as you sound desperate and all attempts seem to be failing so far, I thought I would throw this option into the mix for your consideration, especially as you say you are an independent contractor, perhaps you can set up a small business?


Swiss Immigrant Investor Program

We expect our clients to have a minimum of USD 1 million at their disposal, before applying for Swiss residence program (corporate or lump sum).


A foreigner from Non-EU country, can get Swiss residence permit in 2 ways:
1. Swiss Company Formation (For Corporates)
2. Swiss Lump Sum Taxation (For Retirees) (OBVIOUSLY NOT FOR YOU)
The Swiss Lump Sum Taxation is best suited for wealthy individuals or retirees, while the Swiss company formation is ideal for investors and corporates.


1) Swiss Company Formation
Any foreign national, can form a company in Switzerland (in a Swiss canton), with the scope of creating jobs to local Swiss citizens, thus contributing to the economic development of the country. The owner of the company are eligible for residence permit in Switzerland. The most popular forms of company are GmBH / SARL (like LLC) and AG (for corporations). The Canton of Zug, because of low corporate taxes are much favourable canton to form company.


It usually takes about 3-4 months to get a residence permit in Switzerland.
The main eligibility criteria for getting residence permit are:
  1. No employment or occupation in Switzerland.
  2. First time residence in Switzerland and foreigner shouldn't have resided in Switzerland for the last 10 years.
  3. No Swiss Citizenship.
  4. No age limit for EU nationals.
  5. Requirement of Rented or Purchased residence in Switzerland.
  6. Persons who apply for this program should be above 18yrs of age and those who seek residence permit under retirement must be above 55yrs of age and prove adequate financial means.
  7. Persons applying for this program need to produce long list of identification documents, besides having clean criminal record and good moral character.
Foreign citizens who have a Swiss residence permit, are allowed to buy real estate property such as apartment or a home, without the need for prior approvals in Switzerland.


http://business-investor-immigration...estor-program/
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Old 22.06.2017, 10:07
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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@Samaire13: Unfortunately, in my Eastern Seaboard metro area, the "typical" (i.e. one of the ones you see on TheKnot.com with 100-150 people, Pinterest-perfect -- anything but realistically typical) wedding here takes 12-18 months to plan --- if you can even book a reception venue within that time frame. Crazy, no?
Yes, it is crazy.

But that aside, it simply doesn't matter. That fairytale-walk-down-the-aisle-in-white-dress-while-500-closest-friends-are-watching is not legally relevant. So you can do that whenever you want. All you need is a legally binding marriage and you can get that probalby within a month or two.

At the end of the day, your decision, really. You either want to be with that future husband sooner rather than later. Or you prefer to insist on some legally irrelevant party for another 12, 18, 24 months while living on different continents.

I know what would take priority for me, but everyone is different.

Of course you can continue to try to get that fiancé visa, but you will never get one cause you misunderstood the purpose, as others have already outlined.
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Old 22.06.2017, 10:16
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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Hiya, as you sound desperate and all attempts seem to be failing so far, I thought I would throw this option into the mix for your consideration, especially as you say you are an independent contractor, perhaps you can set up a small business?


Swiss Immigrant Investor Program

We expect our clients to have a minimum of USD 1 million at their disposal, before applying for Swiss residence program (corporate or lump sum).


A foreigner from Non-EU country, can get Swiss residence permit in 2 ways:
1. Swiss Company Formation (For Corporates)
2. Swiss Lump Sum Taxation (For Retirees) (OBVIOUSLY NOT FOR YOU)
The Swiss Lump Sum Taxation is best suited for wealthy individuals or retirees, while the Swiss company formation is ideal for investors and corporates.


1) Swiss Company Formation
Any foreign national, can form a company in Switzerland (in a Swiss canton), with the scope of creating jobs to local Swiss citizens, thus contributing to the economic development of the country. The owner of the company are eligible for residence permit in Switzerland. The most popular forms of company are GmBH / SARL (like LLC) and AG (for corporations). The Canton of Zug, because of low corporate taxes are much favourable canton to form company.


It usually takes about 3-4 months to get a residence permit in Switzerland.
The main eligibility criteria for getting residence permit are:
  1. No employment or occupation in Switzerland.
  2. First time residence in Switzerland and foreigner shouldn't have resided in Switzerland for the last 10 years.
  3. No Swiss Citizenship.
  4. No age limit for EU nationals.
  5. Requirement of Rented or Purchased residence in Switzerland.
  6. Persons who apply for this program should be above 18yrs of age and those who seek residence permit under retirement must be above 55yrs of age and prove adequate financial means.
  7. Persons applying for this program need to produce long list of identification documents, besides having clean criminal record and good moral character.
Foreign citizens who have a Swiss residence permit, are allowed to buy real estate property such as apartment or a home, without the need for prior approvals in Switzerland.


http://business-investor-immigration...estor-program/
Possible, but I think a couple of problems. For a GmbH, Sarl and AG at least one of the directors of the company has to be a Swiss resident when the company is formed. That could be the fiancé or I believe there are companies that can act in that capacity, an accountant, etc, but should be someone the OP can trust not to run off with the company funds.

Other problem could be getting a business account since the OP is American. Again this would depend on whether they have signatory rights to the company accounts in which case it would probably be a no, no for the banks since the accounts would also need W-9 forms signed and the account details sent on to the IRS. And of course any business account or accounts which come to an aggregate figure of more than $10,000 at any time of the year also have to be reported on an FBAR form, same as personal bank accounts.

The Swiss authorities will look closely at how the company will create jobs here so don't think of just being a one man show as that won't get you a permit either under this scheme. Definitely worth considering further though if you have a business idea that would work here.
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Old 22.06.2017, 10:25
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

And I'd like to add to that that given her title reads "got rejected AGAIN", I'm assuming she has tried to get that fiancé visa at least twice already.

The people working at (federal) authorities are not completely dense and will figure out that additional applications based on whatever other option there may be will simply be an attempt to circumvent previous decisions.

OP may have thought that "in Switzerland, all you need to do is show that you have $$", but well, no such luck.

Again, the solution is obvious.
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Old 22.06.2017, 10:25
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

Just a comment on legal/cultural differences:

Unlike in some countries, in the US, a church wedding is legally relevant. "By the power vested in me by the state of New York I now pronounce you husband and wife". The priest/minister has the legal power to marry. The marriage license is issed by the state, but that's permission to marry, not the marriage itself.

One can of course have a civil wedding in front of a judge and then, already legally married, in some churches one can later have a marriage blessing ceremony. But doctrinally the blessing service is not the same thing as a wedding, and might or might not be what a religious couple want.


But be that as it may... Twenty seven years later, I'll second the notion that the wedding is just one day, an important day certainly but one that absolutely pales in comparision to each and every day of married life. The marriage is what is important, and what one should be putting the most thought and effort into. (The party is largely for the parents. )

When immigration rules intrude on the relationship, compromises are often needed.

Best of luck to you and your finance.
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Old 22.06.2017, 10:29
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

One of those users who should spend more time studying the works of Professor Jagger

"'Cos you'll find some time, you'll get what you need"
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Old 22.06.2017, 10:50
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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Again, the solution is obvious.
Indeed. I'm almost considering moving this to the First World Problem thread.
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Old 23.06.2017, 13:49
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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Best of luck to you and your finance.
Freudian slip?
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Old 23.06.2017, 14:29
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

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Freudian slip?


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Old 23.06.2017, 19:29
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Re: My fiancé visa got rejected AGAIN in Zurich! Help!

This was the way we got married and celebrated with friends and families. We've now been happily married for 48 years so it looks as if 'other arrangements' sometimes work ok.
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