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Old 02.07.2008, 19:02
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Séjour auprès du concubin?! [concubine permit]

Ok, so here is the situation...i am Puertorican, lived in NY for many years and have had a 3yr relationship with my swiss bf. I now intend on moving to Lausanne to live with him and after visiting the local commune in Lutry i was told i can apply for a permanent stay in Switzerland by way of cohabitation (Séjour auprès du concubin).

I tried to look up this info on the site but its only in french. Here is the link: www.vd.ch/fr/themes/vie-privee/etrangers/entree-et-sejour/autorisations-de-sejour-ole-etats-tiers/

Now, i do not speak french and my bf wasn't exactly clear on what this is or the exact docs which are required. So, i know that prior proof of an existing relationship with him is required such as lease, bank statements etc. but here are my quest:
  1. What exactly is this? Is it REALLY a permanent visa? Is it a permit of some sort or just a resident something...
  2. How difficult is it to be approved? How long can it really take?
  3. I have a lease from when we lived together in NY for a year & ticket stubs/bookings from my travels to CH and his to NY but only this. We have never shared a bank account and besides the lease all other utilities/bills were under only my name. Because it was so long ago (he moved back to CH over a yr ago) he does not have any old mail with my NY address on it. What else can i provide as proof knowing how difficult it is to stay here if you are not EU.
  4. Better to have a plethora of paperwork to submit than not enough so does anyone have any other suggestions of what to provide?
I would appreciate ANY help or suggestions anyone can give me. I leave here (Lausanne) in 3wks and want to gather all info before i leave here so that as soon as i arrive back in NY i can apply the same day so my stay in NY will be a short one.

J
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Old 02.07.2008, 19:33
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

The link you have provided is not for "concubinage". Your boyfriend will be the one applying for you, so he needs to know exactly what you need to give him and the procedure to follow. It's up to him!
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Old 02.07.2008, 19:41
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

you may also get more of the responses you are looking for by posting your title in English.
Good luck
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Old 02.07.2008, 19:42
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

J.L-P
Yes, him and I went to the commune and they have given us a checklist of what we need. On that form is titled (EXACTLY AS BELOW WITH BOLD AND ALL):

But du séjour: Séjour auprès du concubin

So, it IS indeed a visa or permit under cohabitation. My bf translated what the woman at the commune said and what the forms say but his poor english made it difficult for me to understand. I was also hoping that someone whom may know of someone who applied for the same or whom they themselves have applied and been granted this can give me some more direction/tips.

Madkap - Thanks for the suggestion But, i tried and i couldn't edit the title. How do i change it without having to repost...cuz if i repost it will be deleted
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Old 02.07.2008, 23:06
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

Concubine eh? How exotic!

I looked through the link quickly and couldn’t find anything relating to non married cohab but if the guy in commune de Lutry said it’s valid then I’d take his word on it. There’s a passing reference to it in the second last post of the following thread which seems to collaborate what he told you:
Canadian Girl in love with a swiss boy

I also found the following link which points to the same route, though I’m not clear how up to date this link is:
http://switzerland.isyours.com/e/imm..._question.html

In terms of documents the forms always say you must produce this and that but my own experience in Vaud is that there’s some give and take and you can negotiate if you don’t have everything exactly as laid out in the form as long as you can satisfy the spirit of what they are getting at - in your case that there’s a real long term relationship.

If you’re not sure about what you've been told, I wouldn’t hesitate to go back to the commune and seek clarification. I'd certainly do this before you leave as it'll be much harder to sort out once you leave. Do you know anyone who speaks good English and French who could go with you? If you don't already, you also need to understand what rights the cohab visa will give - how long is it for? will it give a right a work? What happens if the two of you break up? Will your partner have to guarantee that he will support you? If so what does he have to produce? etc etc.

Sorry couldn't be more helpful. Good luck.
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Old 03.07.2008, 00:03
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

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J.L-P
Yes, him and I went to the commune and they have given us a checklist of what we need. On that form is titled (EXACTLY AS BELOW WITH BOLD AND ALL):
So, it IS indeed a visa or permit under cohabitation. My bf translated what the woman at the commune said and what the forms say but his poor english made it difficult for me to understand. I was also hoping that someone whom may know of someone who applied for the same or whom they themselves have applied and been granted this can give me some more direction/tips.
I have gone through it, but it was in Canton ZH which may be different than VD. All you do is furnish everything that is on the list (your list might not be the same as mine was), and then wait (5 mo's 27 days for mine).

One thing- they never asked about the relationship, it seemed like they couldn't care less!

Anyway, scan the list and pm it to me and I will translate it.
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Old 03.07.2008, 12:31
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

Nev - Thanks for the links and the insight... Alas, i do not know of anyone whom speaks good English and French to come with to the commune.

J.L-P - ...wait, so first you don't know, and now you know 'cause you "went through" the same? LOL! Well, just like with everything else i've seen all the canton's have their different requirements and laws this is true. Though, i really hope that it doesn't take the same 5months it took for yours to be approved !!! Ay yay yay!
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Old 03.07.2008, 12:36
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

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I have a lease from when we lived together in NY for a year & ticket stubs/bookings from my travels to CH and his to NY but only this. We have never shared a bank account and besides the lease all other utilities/bills were under only my name. Because it was so long ago (he moved back to CH over a yr ago) he does not have any old mail with my NY address on it. What else can i provide as proof knowing how difficult it is to stay here if you are not EU.
Some friends, in a similar situation, were able to produce mail (eg Christmas cards, wedding invitations) addressed to both of them at the same address - this helped establish not only cohabitation but also recognition of the relationship by others.

Barbra.
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Old 03.07.2008, 12:39
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

BHBT (Barbra) - Clever creative thinking! I love it!!! THANKS
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Old 03.07.2008, 13:57
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

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J.L-P - ...wait, so first you don't know, and now you know 'cause you "went through" the same? LOL! Well, just like with everything else i've seen all the canton's have their different requirements and laws this is true. Though, i really hope that it doesn't take the same 5months it took for yours to be approved !!! Ay yay yay!
I didn't say I didn't know- I said your bf needs the exact list. And yes, I originally came to CH because of someone (nolonger in my life). I can't tell you exactly how it works in VD 'cause I don't live there and we don't have the same nationalities either. You will need your criminal record, birth certificate, your bf will have to post a bond for you (the only way I can say it English), etc. I found the items were easy to provide- it was the waiting that was hard! My offer of translation still stands (French is the "mother tongue" in my house).
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Old 03.07.2008, 15:37
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

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You will need your criminal record, birth certificate, .
I think by "criminal record" J.L-P means a confirmation from the police in your home country that you have no criminal convictions. That's what I was asked for. A record of criminal conviction would be a major obstacle for anyone, let alone a concubine. The bond is a guarantee of financial support if you are not able to support yourself when you get here.
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Old 03.07.2008, 21:36
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

Nev - Thanks for clarifying. Wow, i wonder if thats something extra (the criminal conviction part) or something asked for after because my checklist doesn't have that...geez, if so what else may i have to provide that isn't on the list?

Yes, under this visa/permit or whatever it is he has to show that he can financially support me during my stay in CH.
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Old 04.07.2008, 13:27
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

I''ve searched the web and have read some horror stories about this 'permanent resident permit/visa' thing or whatever it is, taking as long as 6months to be approved and in most cases being denied.

I do not want this to happen to me...below is the exact verbage on the check-list for this 'right to stay' that was given to my bf at the commune. The list seems simple but knowing the swiss authorities etc. the below will not be enough and i do not have some of these things as i mentioned above.

Etats tiers: Check-list 8

Notice:
Le motif du séjour est de vivre auprès de son concubin.

Le séjour est réglé en application de l'article 13 f de l'Ordonnance du 6 octobre 1986 limitant le nombre des étrangers (OLE) si le concubin prend une activité.

Concerne les concubins de sexe opposé ou de meme sexe.

En cas d'acceptation par le Service de la population, le dossier est soumis à l'approbation de l'Office fédéral des migrations (ODM).
Liste des documents
  • Photocopie d'une pièce d'identité suisse ou d'une autorisation de séjour ou d'establissement du concubin en Suisse
  • Lettre motivant la nécessité du séjour auprès du concubin en Suisse/ Pour les concuins de sexe opposé: Motifs pour lesquels un mariage n'est pas envisagé
  • Preuves d'une relation stable préexistante depuis un certain temps (preuve d'un logement en commun, de comptes bancaires en commun, attestations diverses, etc.) et/ou copie d'une convention entre concuins ou contrat de partenariat (PACS)
  • Justificatifs démontrant que les moyens financiers sont assurés de manière durable ou "Attestation de prise en charge financière" signée par le concubin avec justificatifs des moyens financiers durables de ce dernier; à défault, dècompte de chomage ou attestation des services sociaux indiquant l'existence ou non de prestations d'assistance publique (sauf si prise d'emploi simultanée à la demande)
  • Copie d'un bail à loyer
  • Rapport d'arrivée avec 2 photos
  • Copie du passeport, y compris copie du visa
  • Si prise d'emploi simultanément à la demande: Formule 1350 <<Demande de main-d'oeuvre étrangère>> et annexe (le tout, en 2 exemplaires):
    • Copie du contrat de travail conclu entre l'employeur et son employé étranger
* Transmission au Service de la population préalablement à l'annonce d'arrivée, le cas échéant par l'administré, par le concubin résidant en Suisse, par un mandataire ou par l'ambassade/consulat.

...and end quote!

So...how can i unundate them with enough proof of my pre-existing longterm relationship with bf back in NY. Keep in mind the above which i have already mentioned (ie: docs or proof i do not have, like no bank accts that we have shared) and also that my bf's finances (him able to support me and show proof of this) is NOT a problem.

Boy...that was alot of writing. Hope to get good news from you loyal EF'er...
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Old 04.07.2008, 14:26
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

Here's what they want:
Point 1. Copy of your boyfriend’s swiss identitiy papers
Point 2 - an explanation of why you think you have to move to CH to live with your boyfriend and an explanation of why you feel it’s necessary to live together as unmarried partners rather than as a married couple.
Point 3 - proof of a long standing stable existing relationship (proof of shared lodging, joint bank accounts, certificates etc) AND/OR copies of a cohabitation agreement between partners or a partnership contract (I don’t know what these agreement/contracts are because I’ve never heard of them).
Point 4. - proof that your boyfriend can support you financially
Point 5. Copy of lease (I assume in CH)
Point 6. I’m not sure what a rapport d’arrivé is. You’ll have to ask the commune in Lutry
Point 7. Copy of your passport and visa
Point 8. If you have an offer of employment and want to work in CH, a copy of the offer of employment plus form 1350 in duplicate

The tough parts are satisfying points 2 and 3.
As I said before, as a first step I would go back to the commune and seek clarification of what you don’t understand eg rapport d'arrivé.
As a second step you might think about getting some professional help as this is not your bog standard application for a married couple or EU citizen.
The success will depend on what you pull together and from what you have told us I suspect there will have to be some negotiation. It sounds like neither you nor your boyfriend have the language skills to do that. Also some experience of what will fly and what won’t in the Canton de Vaud will be invaluable. For example a simple way out of point 2. might be to sign a cohab agreement - but as I say I don’t what that is.
It’s up to you in the end but if you don’t get help you might end up running round in circles and submitting something which might get rejected. I doubt this forum can resolve all these issues for you.
Think about it and if you are prepared to pay someone to help I will pm contact of someone in Lausanne who does this stuff for a living. They are quite reasonable, speak english and you could always talk to them first to get an estimate of costs before committing.
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Old 04.07.2008, 14:41
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

Nev - you are a saint! Yes, i would really appreciate if you could pm me the contact info.
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Old 04.07.2008, 15:59
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

[quote=Nev;261403]Point 3 - proof of a long standing stable existing relationship (proof of shared lodging, joint bank accounts, certificates etc) AND/OR copies of a cohabitation agreement between partners or a partnership contract (I don’t know what these agreement/contracts are because I’ve never heard of them).

A "PACS" is a "pacte civil de solidarité"; a legal civil union, giving you similiar rights to a married couple.
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Old 05.07.2008, 09:46
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

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Point 6. I’m not sure what a rapport d’arrivé is. You’ll have to ask the commune in Lutry
This is the form that they give you to fill out.
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Old 09.07.2008, 16:17
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

thanks MM.
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Old 11.07.2008, 14:08
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

UPDATE:

I have revisited the local commune here in Lutry and called the swiss consulate in NY (where i have to apply) for clarification and was told first by the local commune that the process is fairly simple and my bf and I are worrying too much.

I was then told by the swiss consulate in NY that the application is simply just 3 copies of the completed visa form with just 3 copies of my ID, and 3 passport foto's. Normally i would be able to apply whilst still in Switzerland or at least go to a neighboring country but that Geneva and Lausanne have so many applications for visa's in general that they are strict and tell you to go back to your residing country to apply. If i were in Neuchatel for example or Bern that those cantons (since they are much smaller) would allow me to stay during the process. They also told me that in their experience its always after you apply that CH then comes back with their thousand questions.

Just seems too easy. If it is really this easy then why do i hear the horror stories of it taking as long as 5 or 6months for most people? According to both offices it should only take 6-10weeks.
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Old 11.07.2008, 14:20
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Re: Séjour auprès du concubin?!

The process can be very simple and yet take time to process. I brought my EU national daughter in under the family reunion route. Couldn't have been easier. A simple form, photo, copies of passports etc. No questions were asked
after I put the forms in. Then silence for five months until one day I got a letter telling me the permit was ready for collection. Geneva, Zurich and Vaud have very high rates of foreigner applications. More often than not, as the communes will tell you, the bottleneck isn't the commune who tend to process their bit fairly quickly, the backlogs are caused at the canton level when the papers are submitted to them.
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