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  #21  
Old 25.12.2019, 22:38
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

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8 months after the end of April 2020 should be sufficient to get myself settled in Switzerland, especially since I could only stay for 6 months in total anyway without finding a job.

I know what I am doing, and having my motivation questioned by people who have never met me, and don't know all the facts, is bordering on the offensive to me. Be careful in future.
No, people are being realistic.

Finding a job here is not easy and takes a lot of time. Also, you are in a highly competitive market with lots and lots of people who have experience working in Switzerland and who speak several languages.
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  #22  
Old 25.12.2019, 23:25
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

You seem to be putting a great deal of thought into your plans, and are to be commended for that.

As far as I can see it (granted that I don't know your full situation, of course), going slowly and methodically as you have in mind seems ideal.

A reason to expedite the move, if there is any (and to me it seems there is), lies only in the uncertainties about still easily getting a work permit in Switzerland before Brexit closes that door for you.

Some people manage to find work quickly and easily, and it seems to me that those who succeed right away are the ones to whom it is not particularly important what they do, as long as the bills are covered. But that kind of work is often found on foot.

The managers of pubs and bars, restaurants and food-stalls, small shops and also places with a huge seasonal fluctuation of tourist activities, all of these are more likely to hire the friendly person standing right in front of them, here and now, with the right papers in their hand.

I wonder whether, as you see you're making good progress in wrapping up your UK life, if it might be possible for you to find such work during a short trip here, before you complete everything in the UK.

By the way, Internet access in Switzerland is generally excellent. Not only is the cover and reception strong and consistent, but many places offer free WiFi, including the Swiss railways, and a lot of restaurants and libraries. It's also very do-able to buy a small portable router and buy data. I don't think you can buy a mobile phone subscription (some packages include a lot of data) until you're resident here. Therefore, you might find it useful to get an add-on roaming data bundle on top of whatever you now have in the UK, to tide you over during the first phase on Switzerland.

As to this advice, or any other suggestions that other users here may post... please, just extract the parts which you find helpful, and skip over the parts which you feel don't apply.

It's the way of fora: precisely because we don't know one another, and don't have all the info, we pick up on different aspects of the posts.

Once in a while, I've been stunned to see how unexpected a response was, to something I posted. Sometimes that has hurt, especially when I've felt I've been misunderstood or incorrectly judged. At other times, a reply which at first seemed tangential or irrelevant has actually set me thinking about some aspect I hadn't even realised that I ought to consider, when I first asked my questions, and I'm grateful for that.

Please feel free to ask for any more info you'd like, and then you can sift through the responses to see what feels like it's likely to work for you.

Good luck with your preparations!
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  #23  
Old 25.12.2019, 23:39
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

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I know what I am doing, and having my motivation questioned by people who have never met me, and don't know all the facts, is bordering on the offensive to me. Be careful in future.
You asked for opinions for people already here, you got them, if you don't like them then simply ignore them. At the end of the day it is your choice.
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Old 25.12.2019, 23:46
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

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The managers of pubs and bars, restaurants and food-stalls, small shops and also places with a huge seasonal fluctuation of tourist activities, all of these are more likely to hire the friendly person standing right in front of them, here and now, with the right papers in their hand.
Coming in late April, may also mean that you are not hitting the market at the best point, the Swiss like to plan and will already be well into the recruiting process for the summer season.... but for the OP the prep seems to be more important than the execution... it would be a pity after all the prep it does not pan out, but that is the OP's risk.
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  #25  
Old 26.12.2019, 21:10
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

Going for that kind of work to me suggests a seasonal - i.e. non-permanent - job on an L permit, which is basically what I got for my previous spell of employment in Switzerland in Winter 2011. That to me would seem to be a dangerous trap, as the job and permit could run out at just the wrong time next year, leaving me in a frantic rush to find another, permanent job before December 31st, when I would cease to be eligible.

When I come out, I will deliberately avoid jobs which are advertised as temporary or seasonal, to avoid that potential trap. Permanent ones only would be the only ones worth considering, as they should get me a B Permit.

The wait until late April is especially important to allow me to improve my German, which at present is not adequate to allow me to converse, read or write in it at will - posing a serious risk to my chances of finding work. That has to be improved step by step, or my brain just cannot handle the sea change in language that it is being tasked with. Regarding my affairs, I cannot risk leaving a mess behind in the UK, which I would then have to try and clean-up long distance. That is not my instinct, and I prefer to sort it out before I leave.
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  #26  
Old 26.12.2019, 21:36
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

So far, I don't see any evidence of a USP. If a Swiss national or resident with a permit can do the job you are applying for, they will be before you in the queue because of a) their permit and b) their language skills.

Can you explain what makes you more employable than the above?
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Old 26.12.2019, 22:42
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

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When I come out, I will deliberately avoid jobs which are advertised as temporary or seasonal, to avoid that potential trap. Permanent ones only would be the only ones worth considering, as they should get me a B Permit.
So eat into your saving while looking for a job....

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The wait until late April is especially important to allow me to improve my German, which at present is not adequate to allow me to converse, read or write in it at will - posing a serious risk to my chances of finding work. That has to be improved step by step, or my brain just cannot handle the sea change in language that it is being tasked with.
It will take years, not months to get to that kind of level....

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Regarding my affairs, I cannot risk leaving a mess behind in the UK, which I would then have to try and clean-up long distance. That is not my instinct, and I prefer to sort it out before I leave.
So you'd prefer to risk not achieving your objective over possibly leaving a mess behind that you might have to deal with later...

I'm not even sure why you are bothering to ask here. You clearly have your plan and you are going to stick to it no matter what, so go do it and I hope it works out for you.
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Old 26.12.2019, 23:20
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

Marsalforn - this is the scenario which I am worried about, and that is why I asked Medea about it, but doropfiz seems to imply that my not having a permit initially would not be a problem, as the process of getting one prior to the end of December next year would be quick, and straightforward. The German issue I can do something about before I come out, but the permit issue I can only resolve when I have found a permanent job out there.
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Old 27.12.2019, 02:16
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Re: Moving to Switzerland from the UK

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Marsalforn - this is the scenario which I am worried about, and that is why I asked Medea about it, but doropfiz seems to imply that my not having a permit initially would not be a problem, as the process of getting one prior to the end of December next year would be quick, and straightforward. The German issue I can do something about before I come out, but the permit issue I can only resolve when I have found a permanent job out there.
You are right to be working on your German before you get here. And it is likely to progress in leaps and bounds once you're here, using it daily.

The permit will follow, as a straightforward matter, once you have work earning enough to keep yourself afloat.

Marsalfon makes a very good point. Your profile says you are a housekeeper and film-video maker, and as I understand it the course you're currently doing is to get your foot in the door in working in hospitality, plus you have some basic German. With those skills, I think it would be a matter of extreme good fortune if you just happened to land a permanent, full-time job straight away.

However, I do believe that a determined (and you seem to be) person who is willing to take more or less any legal job in Switzerland, and who is here, ready to get started, and who shows themselves to be enthusiastic, friendly, and hardworking, and who does the work of approaching one employer after the next, all day and evening long, for several weeks, has a fairly good chance of landing a job.

And then it is highly unlikely to be full-time, permanent job. Much more likely is a non-ideal, part-time job, then an additional part-time job, then another temporary job, and through several rounds of that, adding and replacing, sooner or later there'll be a full-time (or full-time-ish enough) permanent position.

Swiss employers (and employees) can terminate an employment contract very easily. On one hand that means there's no job-security carved in stone, but on the other, it means that the threshold for an employer to hire someone, especially in the high-fluctuation segment of those kinds of work, is nicely low. Reputation is very important, here. If the employer needs staff, and you seem reasonable, honest, sane, diligent and above all friendly, then you might be given a trial period in a job in hospitality, fairly quickly. The attributes which are esteemed, here, in finding work are: clean, well-groomed, polite, respectful, hard-working, punctual, willing, discreet and in particular friendly, kind, and non-whingey, someone who will be seen by the employer and the team as a ray of sunshine who contributes hard work and good cheer into the team. Become known as that up-beat, fun person, who can be counted on to arrive at work with a positive attitude, bringing a good mood to the team's working day, and you have a high chance of finding work, and more work.

And the networking to which I referred applies just as much at this level of work. Your manager likes your work, and you wave to several other shop-owners nearby each day, and you'll get known. You tell your room-mates, work colleagues, your boss and your clients, that you're looking for more hours, you place online ads, and on your free days you go out and apply for more. Everywhere you emphasise that getting a permit is a mere formality, or else that you already have one. Your German will improve from daily use, and your reputation will grow.

As I observe it, that's the way things work here, for those who are not highly skilled, highly educated staff. It's turbulent and insecure, but perseverence and being the employee-that-everyone-wants can help you get to where you want. (And as I wrote earlier, once you have that, you can turn your focus to researching what it would take to start a business.)

As soon as you do get any employment contract (or any combination of part-time jobs) which will pay you enough to cover your basics, the permit will be no problem.

Though the security of a B-permit is certainly much nicer to have (and if I were in your position I would want that), I don't think it matters, initially, whether it is an L or a B. At least, if I were determined to leave the UK and to move to Switzerland before losing my EU-citizenship, I would see the permits, and the jobs, that way: whatever it takes.

To get to the security of a B-permit as soon as possible, your task will be to push ahead to do that networking (perhaps including re-kindling all your former contacts in Switzerland), to impress everyone around you, and to search, search, search until you find an ongoing job, a permanent contract with enough hours... while you are still an EU citizen.

I'm sympathetic to your feeling that you have tasks you want and need to complete properly, in the UK, before leaving there. If only there weren't the Brexit clock ticking!

It's going to be quite a tricky balance for you, I think. The longer you persue your projects of selling up and schooling in the UK, the more organised things will be for you. However, the sooner you just come on over to Switzerland and get on with walking and talking to find work, the higher your chances of succeeding in securing sufficient employment and a permit before you are no longer eligible. It's not an enviable choice. The longer you leave it, the stronger and better prepared you may feel, yet the smaller your window of opportunity becomes.

Last edited by doropfiz; 01.01.2020 at 20:15. Reason: typo
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