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-   -   Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company' (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/279187-unemployment-benefits-ceo-my-own-company.html)

sva 19.01.2018 17:09

Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Hi all,

The situation is as follows:
  • I am director in a LIMITED company (SA/AG).
  • I was one amongst the initial promoters / shareholders of the company, but am not the only shareholder.
  • Currently, I am the only employee in the company.
  • The company is regularly contributing 'assurance chomage' (unemployment insurance) for me since 5+ years.

Q1 : Am I entitled to unemployment benefit?

This question has arisen as my insurance advisor tells me that as CEO of my own company I am not entitled. Is a 'limited company' my own? Also, In view of the fact that I have no intentions of claiming unemployment allowance, why should the company continue contributing towards it? If it is mandatory to contribute (which it is) can the resultant benefits be denied?

Q2 : What can be a good alternative structure for my 'one man SA', to continue the business while optimising contributions?

Should I change the structure of the company, or should I start showing myself as independent, or self-employed? Here, 'optimisation' is not avoidance, but instead to stop incurring expenditure for a non-existent benefit.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

SVA

fatmanfilms 19.01.2018 18:19

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sva (Post 2899206)
Hi all,

The situation is as follows:
  • I am director in a LIMITED company (SA/AG).
  • I was one amongst the initial promoters / shareholders of the company, but am not the only shareholder.
  • Currently, I am the only employee in the company.
  • The company is regularly contributing 'assurance chomage' (unemployment insurance) for me since 5+ years.

Q1 : Am I entitled to unemployment benefit?

This question has arisen as my insurance advisor tells me that as CEO of my own company I am not entitled. Is a 'limited company' my own? Also, In view of the fact that I have no intentions of claiming unemployment allowance, why should the company continue contributing towards it? If it is mandatory to contribute (which it is) can the resultant benefits be denied?

Q2 : What can be a good alternative structure for my 'one man SA', to continue the business while optimising contributions?

Should I change the structure of the company, or should I start showing myself as independent, or self-employed? Here, 'optimisation' is not avoidance, but instead to stop incurring expenditure for a non-existent benefit.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

SVA

As an employee of the company you have to leave the company, ideally be sacked unless it goes bust.

sva 19.01.2018 18:22

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2899244)
As an employee of the company you have to leave the company, ideally be sacked unless it goes bust.

Suppose my work percentage is changed to 50%?

V__ 19.01.2018 20:04

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
You'll need to be fired from the company and that decision to be made by somebody else (even if you own the company) like a fiduciary for example.

fatmanfilms 19.01.2018 20:29

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sva (Post 2899247)
Suppose my work percentage is changed to 50%?

It should be acceptable as long as you did not make the decision yourself.

NotAllThere 20.01.2018 08:12

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
I understood that you'd have to close the company down. Then you'd be entitled to unemployment beneift.

sva 20.01.2018 17:09

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2899287)
It should be acceptable as long as you did not make the decision yourself.

But thats Catch22!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 2899363)
I understood that you'd have to close the company down. Then you'd be entitled to unemployment beneift.

I came across this while searching. Relevant excerpt:

Employees of AG and GmbH are considered employees and are therefore better off. However, two prerequisites must be fulfilled:

The salary must actually have been paid out.

The corresponding contributions to the social security funds must have been paid.

As long as the company has not been liquidated and the entrepreneur still has management responsibility (as a board member, unlimited partner or controlling shareholder), there is no entitlement to unemployment compensation.


So, it seems that i cannot get any support from chomage, despite having paid in for 5+ years :msnshock:

Any suggestions? Anyone....?

V__ 20.01.2018 17:12

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
It's quite simple, get a fiduciary to have signature rights and be in the board of the company, the fiduciary fires you and you claim unemployment. You still control company through the fiduciary, for which you pay a fee.

sva 20.01.2018 17:34

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V__ (Post 2899570)
It's quite simple, get a fiduciary to have signature rights and be in the board of the company, the fiduciary fires you and you claim unemployment. You still control company through the fiduciary, for which you pay a fee.

Since I cannot remain the controlling shareholder, I will also need to transfer shareholding to him, right?... how? What about the purchase price?

fatmanfilms 20.01.2018 18:46

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sva (Post 2899574)
Since I cannot remain the controlling shareholder, I will also need to transfer shareholding to him, right?... how? What about the purchase price?

Well that depends on the value of the business, 1 CHF may be more than enough.

sva 20.01.2018 18:49

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2899585)
Well that depends on the value of the business, 1 CHF may be more than enough.

The Tax authorities send each year a calculated value of each share, so, dont i have to sell the company at that value / share x no of shares?

fatmanfilms 20.01.2018 22:16

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sva (Post 2899586)
The Tax authorities send each year a calculated value of each share, so, dont i have to sell the company at that value / share x no of shares?

Shares get sold at what a willing buyer will pay a seller.

NotAllThere 21.01.2018 08:54

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sva (Post 2899569)
...As long as the company has not been liquidated and the entrepreneur still has management responsibility (as a board member, unlimited partner or controlling shareholder), there is no entitlement to unemployment compensation.[/I]

To me that reads (and I checked the German) you can't claim unemployment benefit so long as the company hasn't been liquidated. Liquidate the company and you can.

sva 21.01.2018 09:23

Re: Unemployment benefits - CEO of 'my own company'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2899633)
Shares get sold at what a willing buyer will pay a seller.

I really dont know how it works here. Wouldn't the Office of Company Affairs (or its equivalent) ask to justify the sale price?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 2899687)
To me that reads (and I checked the German) you can't claim unemployment benefit so long as the company hasn't been liquidated. Liquidate the company and you can.

Liquidated, or "does not have management control / majority shareholding" dont you think?


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