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Old 30.01.2018, 13:00
ZhZ ZhZ is offline
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C permit for whole family rejected

HI All,

Have a question related to C permit. After 5 years in CH on B permit we have applied as family for C permit.
My wife had all required documents.
My son 4 years old - born in CH with all required documents.
Myself I did not have only language certificate.

Due to the fact that I did not have language certificate our application was turned down and all of us received 5 year extension of B permit

Question: Can we appeal from that decision. I agree that for me as I did not have all documents decision to extended my B permit was right but for my wife and baby as they had all required documents that should receive C permit.
Have you faced similar case in he past?

thx for feedback
ZhZ
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Old 30.01.2018, 13:04
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

Are all of your family dependant on you and you are non EU?

If so then they responded correctly.

Of course, you can appeal but do not rate your chances.
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Old 30.01.2018, 13:15
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

your wife and children probably have permits that are dependent on yours, hence they get the same permit as you.

you cannot appeal but you can do the language test and apply for the C-permit again.
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Old 30.01.2018, 13:32
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

The main criteria for the grant of a C permit is continuous employment and residence in Switzerland for 5 years. Spouses and children get it because they get the same permit as you. So if you dont fulfill the criteria, you wont get the C permit and also your dependants.

you are saying that you had a 5 year B permit, so i guess you are from EU. in the past days, there was automatic renewal of B permits to C after 5 years without language requirements but the new law that came into force from 1st Janaury 2018 ties integration and the ability to speak the local language mandatory aspect for granting C permits. so EU and Non EU will be treated the same way when it comes to granting C (early or normal) permits.


cheers
happycreature
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Old 30.01.2018, 13:36
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

Hello,

@ Magic. We are from group of EU 8 of countries - Poland.
Actually as I arrived few months later in 2012 my permit was dependent on my wife's one.

She fully comply with C permit requirements.

If this is a case probably we can appeal.
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Old 30.01.2018, 13:43
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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HI All,

Have a question related to C permit. After 5 years in CH on B permit we have applied as family for C permit.
My wife had all required documents.
My son 4 years old - born in CH with all required documents.
Myself I did not have only language certificate.

Due to the fact that I did not have language certificate our application was turned down and all of us received 5 year extension of B permit

Question: Can we appeal from that decision. I agree that for me as I did not have all documents decision to extended my B permit was right but for my wife and baby as they had all required documents that should receive C permit.
Have you faced similar case in he past?

thx for feedback
ZhZ
Why would you even apply for a C-permit without all of the required documentation? That's not very smart and you are essentially shooting yourself in the foot and making their decision easy for them.
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Old 30.01.2018, 13:47
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

What's the big deal with the C anyway if you are EU?

Tom
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:06
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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What's the big deal with the C anyway if you are EU?
It grants permanent residence in CH as well as the right to move canton and purchase property without having to seek any special permission first. And of course it's required as a precursor to taking Swiss nationality if that's the long-term goal.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:06
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

You can get guns more easily and buy a house that you won't live in. Pretty much it.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:09
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

I didn't even have to apply, they just gave it to me, and it didn't change anything, as I was already paying normal taxes for years.

And you still have to live in it if you use part of your 2P or 3P to buy it.

And we've only recently started buying guns (though my wife had them in the past, but got rid of them before she met me, which she probably regrets ).

Tom
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:13
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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The main criteria for the grant of a C permit is continuous employment and residence in Switzerland for 5 years. Spouses and children get it because they get the same permit as you. So if you dont fulfill the criteria, you wont get the C permit and also your dependants.

you are saying that you had a 5 year B permit, so i guess you are from EU. in the past days, there was automatic renewal of B permits to C after 5 years without language requirements but the new law that came into force from 1st Janaury 2018 ties integration and the ability to speak the local language mandatory aspect for granting C permits. so EU and Non EU will be treated the same way when it comes to granting C (early or normal) permits.


cheers
happycreature
Is it in force yet though? My understanding is that that part of the law will come into force some time later this year. From another thread (posted 21st December 2017):

Looks like summer next year if it all goes to plan.

"At its meeting on 1 December 2017, the Federal Council opened consultations on the second stage of amendments to the ordinances relating to the new Federal Aliens Act (LEtr). Integration of foreigners is a task shared by the Confederation and the cantons and must be strengthened through appropriate incentives. This includes, inter alia, encouraging the acquisition of language skills and facilitating access to the labour market for refugees and provisionally admitted persons.

On December 16,2016, Parliament approved the amendment to the AETR to improve integration. The implementation of the legislative amendment is divided into two parts. The first part, which will enter into force at the beginning of 2018, includes in particular the abolition of the special tax on income from gainful employment for persons in the field of asylum and a technical amendment to the provision on the financing of the integration package.

The Federal Council today opened consultation on the second stage. It will end on 19 March 2018. This second part includes adaptations of the ordinance on admission, residence and gainful employment (OASA) and the total revision of the ordinance on the integration of foreigners (OIE). These changes will come into effect in the summer of 2018. The AETR will also be renamed the Federal Aliens and Integration Act (LEI).

Facilitating access to the labour market

The current authorisation procedure, which recognised refugees and provisionally admitted persons must follow in order to be able to engage in gainful employment, is replaced by a simple notification procedure. This may be carried out by a third party who will be mandated by the cantonal authorities responsible for promoting integration to find internships or positions. This will facilitate access to the labour market and relieve the burden on employers. It will also make it possible to better exploit the potential of workers in Switzerland and thus reduce social welfare expenditure. The existing monitoring bodies will check whether the working conditions are being complied with.

In addition, the integration criteria that migration authorities must take into account in decisions relating to foreigners' rights are now specified in an ordinance. The granting and extension of an authorisation will henceforth require defined language skills. The more rights the status granted, the more language requirements increase.

The measures decided by Parliament with regard to foreigners who do not demonstrate any willingness to contribute to their integration have also been clarified. The migration authorities may thus link the granting of a residence permit to the application of an integration agreement, which will set out the expectations of the persons concerned. This convention will be binding and may give rise to sanctions. In addition, the settlement permit (Permit C) may be replaced by a residence permit (Permit B) if the integration criteria are not met."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/fr/home...17-12-011.html

New law:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/official.../2017/6521.pdf

New OASA:
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...ntw-vzae-f.pdf

New Vinta:
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...tw-vinta-f.pdf "

As far as I can see the consultation hasn't even finished yet. Did something change since I posted this? If not, and the canton currently has no language proficiency requirement, then maybe they should appeal the decision.

Tom, because even EU nationals - except for those countries with agreements with Switzerland re language - will have to prove their language proficiency. C permits are no longer automatic for any nationality.

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

And B permits can be revoked if you're not integrated enough under the new law. C's can be downgraded to a B which could then be revoked the following renewal. If this also affects really long term C permit holders like us then I don't think we'll be in Switzerland for many more years.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:16
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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in the past days, there was automatic renewal of B permits to C after 5 years without language requirements
The language requirement was already in place in several Kantons, that is not new.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:17
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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I didn't even have to apply, they just gave it to me, and it didn't change anything, as I was already paying normal taxes for years.

And you still have to live in it if you use part of your 2P or 3P to buy it.

And we've only recently started buying guns (though my wife had them in the past, but got rid of them before she met me, which she probably regrets ).

Tom


If you do not apply they give it automatically after 10 years. If you want it earlier you need to apply...and this is what the OP means hence the language test


@OP if you were dependent then they were wrong by refusing it. I had almost the same situation. Mine was refused but my wife and 2 children received C. Mine was refused because of a driving fine. My permit was dependent on my wife's permit.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:21
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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If you do not apply they give it automatically after 10 years.
5 in my case.

Tom
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:23
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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The language requirement was already in place in several Kantons, that is not new.
You are right. For EU (at least in our case, Romania) means renewal from B to C after 10 years but you can apply earlier if you show a certain level of integration and that means B1 German in ZH. But a serious driving fine can block it.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:24
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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5 in my case.

Tom
Rules change

Did you get yours this century?
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:26
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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If you do not apply they give it automatically after 10 years. If you want it earlier you need to apply...and this is what the OP means hence the language test
The language test requirement was already in place in Zurich, (excluding some countries) but for everyone else who applied for a C permit, not related to early or normal application for a C permit.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:34
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

Thank you for all comments.

@ Ace1 those are exactly our golas
@ cdcdoc. Thx you gave a bit of light

We will appeal from the decision. Lets see. I will report later the result.
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:38
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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What's the big deal with the C anyway if you are EU?

Tom
Deferred taxes?
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Old 30.01.2018, 14:40
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Re: C permit for whole family rejected

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Deferred taxes?
Had that already with the B.

Tom
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