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Old 06.04.2018, 15:17
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Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Hello everyone

I need your help!

My situation: I have been living in Zurich since 2011, did a PhD, then was looking for a job for <12 months, I have a job for over a year now. When my PhD contract finished, I did enroll in RAV 1 month later and was there until I found my current job. German B2, with certificate. Always on a 5-year long Permit B. Nationality - EU country from the "new" EU country list. I applied for a permit C over the VINTA programme and today I got a letter that it was declined, despite having fullfilled all the other criteria, because I haven't had a continuous employment over the past 5 years. Overall I was employed for 5.5 years out of 6.5 that I am here, and I was paying Quellensteuer also all the time while on RAV and as you all know, it was far from being on vacation...

Of course I would like to appeal. Is there any strong argument I could use to convince the Migrationsamt?

And the second question: Do you know a lawyer in Zurich or around, who could help me phrase my arguments?

Thanks a lot in advance!
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Old 06.04.2018, 15:37
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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Of course I would like to appeal. Is there any strong argument I could use to convince the Migrationsamt?
No, there is no strong argument as Polish nationals have no entitlement to early C. It is purly optional and can be granted or denied. In your case it was denied, bad luck.
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Old 06.04.2018, 16:53
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Do not waste time or money on a lawyer or fighting this.

You took a chance and applied while not meeting the requirements, all that is left for you to do is begging, and in Switzerland this will not bring you far.

On the positive side you now know when you can apply again
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Old 06.04.2018, 19:15
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Don’t sweat it. While there seems to be no agreement on all the items in the lists of Pros and Cons, the conclusion is usually the same — that the C is no big deal. It’s more of an emotional thing, the value of which I don’t underestimate, but really, not worth fretting about. L to B is more important than B to C, IMO.
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Old 07.04.2018, 12:13
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

You did not fulfill all the requirements, you did not get the permit. That's pretty much it. Apply again when you do.
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Old 07.04.2018, 13:14
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Bear in mind there's a new VINTA law coming into force.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...tw-vinta-f.pdf

Not sure exactly when, but might be worth looking at the requirements to see if they're going to change.
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Old 07.04.2018, 20:38
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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Is there any strong argument I could use to convince the Migrationsamt?
I am afraid not. The 5 years of continuous employment seem to be specific to canton Zürich. I doubt you can do anything about it, the rule is known and I assume it is applied uniformly to all applicants.

I had an almost identical story, an even longer gap in employment and a few months of unemployment benefits. No problem in Aargau.

If you happen to move to a different canton before the 10 years needed for a "normal" C permit are up, simply try again.
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Old 07.04.2018, 20:57
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

https://ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherheit...lligung_IW.pdf
Section 5.2:
Quote:
5.2. Erforderliche Dokumente
...
– Nachweis, dass der Gesuchsteller in den letzten fünf Jahren in der Schweiz
durchgehend einer Erwerbstätigkeit nachgegangen ist.
So, whichever comes first, either 10 year stay or 5 year continuous employment.
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Old 07.04.2018, 21:31
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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I am afraid not. The 5 years of continuous employment seem to be specific to canton Zürich. I doubt you can do anything about it, the rule is known and I assume it is applied uniformly to all applicants.

I had an almost identical story, an even longer gap in employment and a few months of unemployment benefits. No problem in Aargau.

If you happen to move to a different canton before the 10 years needed for a "normal" C permit are up, simply try again.
Most (If not all) cantons have a rule that you must have lived their for some years or the application will again be a waste of time. C feels nicer, but B likely offers him all he needs for now, would be silly to move for such.
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Old 07.04.2018, 21:46
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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Most (If not all) cantons have a rule that you must have lived their for some years or the application will again be a waste of time.
Not all. I got my C permit less than a year after moving to AG (applied five months after the move, as soon as 5 years were completed).

A friend of mine moved to LU during her sixth year in Switzerland and asked for an "upgrade" to a C permit when registering the arrival. She fulfilled all the criteria of the new canton (with no prior residence in LU) and got the permit.

I can imagine some cantons may (want to) be more strict.
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Old 07.04.2018, 22:13
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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Bear in mind there's a new VINTA law coming into force.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...tw-vinta-f.pdf

Not sure exactly when, but might be worth looking at the requirements to see if they're going to change.
I'm still very new to learning French, but it looks like the word integration appears 26 times in that 10 page document. Might be kind of important?
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Old 07.04.2018, 22:19
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Yes, seems to be the keyword for all permit stuff in future.
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Old 07.04.2018, 22:31
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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I'm still very new to learning French, but it looks like the word integration appears 26 times in that 10 page document. Might be kind of important?
With a small tweak to the URL Medea had provided, you can get the same document in German. Hope it helps

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...tw-vinta-d.pdf
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Old 07.04.2018, 22:34
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Thanks.

But it seems rather more to be a document that states what Switzerland intends to do than what a foreigner is expected to do to integrate?
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Old 11.04.2018, 09:00
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

I have a C (which is about to get extended - I will not apply for citizenship as this would mean I have to give up my Dutch nationality), but personally do not see the advantage of a C over a B. In my case, both were handed out for a duration of 5 years.
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Old 11.04.2018, 10:53
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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I have a C (which is about to get extended - I will not apply for citizenship as this would mean I have to give up my Dutch nationality), but personally do not see the advantage of a C over a B. In my case, both were handed out for a duration of 5 years.
I suppose as an EU citizen C vs B doesn't make a huge difference. For a non-EU however, it's the difference between an employer having to go through the non-EU hiring process any time you want to switch jobs vs. not having the fuss. Having the right permit makes you a more attractive candidate, it seems.
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Old 11.04.2018, 12:51
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Since this year a C permit is a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

Besides, in a "social case", it used to be that staying for 15 years or longer and having a C permit would protect against deportation and removal of social help.
Source:
Art. 82 Abs. 5 VZAE
Quote:
5 Die für die Ausrichtung von Sozialhilfeleistungen zuständigen Behörden melden der zuständigen kantonalen Ausländerbehörde unaufgefordert den Bezug von Sozialhilfe durch Ausländerinnen und Ausländer. Eine Meldung erfolgt nicht, wenn die betroffene Person eine Niederlassungsbewilligung besitzt und sich seit mehr als 15 Jahren in der Schweiz aufhält (Art. 63 Abs. 2 AuG).1
Verordnung über Zulassung, Aufenthalt und Erwerbstätigkeit VZAE

And some ZH regulations:
Kanton Zurich Massnahmenpraxis bei Sozialhilfeabhängigkeit
Quote:
1.3. Meldungen der Sozialhilfebehörden
Damit die Ausländerbehörden über die für die Beurteilung wesentlichen Informatio- nen verfügen, hat der Bundesgesetzgeber eine Meldepflicht für die Sozialbehörden festgelegt (Art. 97 Abs. 3 lit. d AuG). Die Sozialbehörden haben dem Migrationsamt unaufgefordert den Bezug von Sozialhilfe durch Ausländerinnen und Ausländer zu melden, ausser die Person besitze die Niederlassungsbewilligung und halte sich seit mehr als 15 Jahren ordnungsgemäss in der Schweiz auf (Art. 82 Abs. 5 VZAE).
Die Sozialhilfebehörden erstatten bei Aufenthaltern ab einem Bezug von SFr. 25‘000.- und bei Niedergelassenen ab einem Bezug von SFr. 40‘000.- eine einmalige Meldung an das Migrationsamt. Bei Kurzaufenthaltern erfolgt mit Bezugsbeginn eine Meldung.
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Old 11.04.2018, 13:01
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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I have a C (which is about to get extended - I will not apply for citizenship as this would mean I have to give up my Dutch nationality), but personally do not see the advantage of a C over a B. In my case, both were handed out for a duration of 5 years.
Amongst other things, the C permit gives the right to move cantons and buy property without being subject to the need to ask for permission first.
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Old 11.04.2018, 13:46
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

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Amongst other things, the C permit gives the right to move cantons and buy property without being subject to the need to ask for permission first.
You don't need permission a with B buying a main residence.
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Old 11.04.2018, 15:26
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Re: Permit C declined (EU), advice needed

Three words;

Integrate,
Integrate,
Integrate,

and follow all the rules.
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