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Old 29.05.2018, 23:47
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Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Hello everyone!

I am a non-EU citizen, currently I am at the end of my bachelor in Austria and plan to apply for a master program in Switzerland (HSG - University of St.Gallen). Looking at many relevant factors, I have a very good chance of getting a place at the university, so I have a few questions about what would follow after the master's completion and that is - obtaining a work permit. The reason for my master in Switzerland is the ability to get a job on the domestic labor market.

Relevant links:

Quote:
https://www.sem.admin.ch/content/sem...abgaenger.html

Foreign graduates holding a Swiss university-level diploma to be granted easier access to the labor market
Parliament passed the Neirynck initiative on June 18, 2010, a parliamentary initiative aimed at amending article 21 of the Foreign Nationals Act. The amendment provides for foreign nationals graduating from a Swiss university-level institution to be on an equal footing with Swiss nationals when it comes to entering the Swiss labor market.

To find employment, foreign nationals who have earned a Swiss university-level diploma will be entitled to stay in Switzerland for six more months from the time of completing their education or postgraduate studies. Those who are successful in securing employment will be issued a work permit, provided the prospective position involves an activity of particular scientific or economic importance.

The amendment has taken effect on 1 January 2011.
1) This in red can be understood in many ways, are there exactly established standards that say what is implied in this sentence?

2) In the period of 6 months after graduation, I will be in the same position with Swiss citizens during job search - does this mean that in my case labor market check will not be conducted in order to find the appropriate people from CH and the EU?

3) My master programme is in Accounting and Finance - therefore there is no scientific contribution to the society. The economic importance is controversial and in my opinion can be interpreted in several ways.

4) What about intership during studies?


Swiss law on foreigners says the same thing:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a21

Quote:
1 Ausländerinnen und Ausländer können zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit nur zugelassen werden, wenn nachgewiesen wird, dass keine dafür geeigneten inländischen Arbeitnehmerinnen und Arbeitnehmer oder Angehörige von Staaten, mit denen ein Freizügigkeitsabkommen abgeschlossen wurde, gefunden werden können.

2 Als inländische Arbeitnehmerinnen und Arbeitnehmer gelten:

a.Schweizerinnen und Schweizer;
b.Personen mit einer Niederlassungsbewilligung;
c.Personen mit einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung, die zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit berechtigt.
3 Ausländerinnen und Ausländer mit Schweizer Hochschulabschluss können in Abweichung von Absatz 1 zugelassen werden, wenn ihre Erwerbstätigkeit von hohem wissenschaftlichem oder wirtschaftlichem Interesse ist. Sie werden für eine Dauer von sechs Monaten nach dem Abschluss ihrer Aus- oder Weiterbildung in der Schweiz vorläufig zugelassen, um eine entsprechende Erwerbstätigkeit zu finden.
However, nowhere I can find the strict definition of "scientific or economic interest".


I come from Europe, but my country is not a member of the European Union. I'm fluent in German, English and Russian (all 3 C1 levels) plus my mother tongue (Serbian).

I am very interested in your personal opinion, whether the lack of EU passport for me could be a major obstacle for getting the job despite the fact that HSG has a very good reputation?


Thanks in advance!
Flum
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  #2  
Old 30.05.2018, 08:33
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Welcome to the forum Flum.

1) Short answer to your question is there is no exact description of what constitutes economic or scientific importance. It's down to the cantonal authorities to decide based on the individual's qualifications and the position on offer.

2) Yes, the non-EU hiring criteria isn't applied for those 6 months, only the economic/scientific importance test.

4) Internships are certainly possible.

Having a non-EU citizenship always makes it harder to get a job here. Whether you take that risk is up to you. Bear in mind that after the 6 months the economic/scientific requirement no longer applies, but the non-EU hiring criteria will instead.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html
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Old 30.05.2018, 13:22
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

I am a current MA student (English Lit and Ling) and am curious about the same thing. I plan to be a teacher, so the "economic importance" for me is even more unlikely. I plan to call the office and ask, but I'm not very hopeful.
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Old 30.05.2018, 14:33
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Flum, with fluent German and MAccFin HSG you are likely to be snapped up relatively easily. This doesn't mean you won't have to convince some recruiters about the law in vigor should they give you problems re work permit

cwinparr, to be able to teach you will likely need to obtain a Kantonal Pädagogische diploma on top of your degree, more info here:

https://www.sbfi.admin.ch/sbfi/de/ho...len/fh-ph.html
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Old 31.05.2018, 03:21
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Thanks for the answers!

Is full-time internship possible even if it is not mandatory in the study program? (there are totally different answers on the internet)

The current situation in Austria with regard to internships is rather discriminatory - it is only allowed for persons whose internship is mandatory during the course of the study (internships are not mandatory at universities). Therefore, for non EU students, it is absolutely impossible to get internships and this creates an initial gap between two types of students, which is later reflected in the situation that a particular group can compete for better jobs etc...
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Old 31.05.2018, 03:32
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

I've studied towards a master's degree in Fribourg.. According to fribourg canton rule (or spomi), non-eu students have to wait 1 year to work but they can do the internship if its mandatory.

But let me tell my experience regarding it.

In my field, the internship was not mandatory but I've asked a letter from my department secretary and faculty dean wrote a letter that it will be good for me to do an internship.

I gave this letter to spomi and they let me to do the internship (actually I did my internship in another canton ).. Well as I understand, the important thing is that the letter from univ. If they write a letter for you then it may possible. After one year, you can work regulary. But of course there is limitation. Max you can work 15 hours per week (I worked 16 hours ) and in holiday (summer and winter) you can work 100%..

Some cantons may ask 6 months instead of 1 year in order to start work.

PS: I've studied Computer Science.

hope it helps
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Old 31.05.2018, 18:42
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

The Neirynck Initiative has, in practice, been pretty useless to most non-Europeans hoping for employment in Switzerland after graduation. Most employers are too lazy to try, and will put non-Europeans' applications straight in the trash. Most business-type jobs won't be considered by the relevant authorities to be of scientific or economic importance.


In the Netherlands years as a student can be counted toward citizenship, and the Netherlands have their own system for non-European applicants, that has proven to be much more effective than the Blue Card system used by a number of EU countries. The Blue Card system is being reformed, though any proposed reforms seem unlikely to take effect until around the time you're completing your master studies.
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Old 31.05.2018, 20:54
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

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1) Short answer to your question is there is no exact description of what constitutes economic or scientific importance. It's down to the cantonal authorities to decide based on the individual's qualifications and the position on offer.
https://www.englishforum.ch/2923106-post32.html
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Old 01.06.2018, 00:42
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Thanks people!

The legislator has therefore deliberately left a certain space for the law to interpret it in many ways, depending on whether there is excessive supply / demand in a particular canton.

A rather insecure situation.

Moving to Switzerland, 1.5 - 2 years during which parents would have to fund me (for our standards - a lot of money) and an uncertain situation about getting a work permit.

On the other hand, to stay in Vienna, to enroll in a good master program where I could easily get a job after that (taxation, the profession that binds me for Austria for a long time), and work for a lower salary, lower standard of living, a homogeneous work environment....



Switzerland:
Tuition fees 2900 EUR x3 semesters = 8700 EUR
Living expenses: let's say per month 1000 EUR * 20 months = 20 000 EUR.
2x student visa, books and other costs: 1000 EUR
_______________________________

In total: 29 700 EUR cost
During my second or third semester I could work up to 15 hours per week and thus reduce costs.

Average salary after graduation? I do not know, what do you think? What I found on the Internet is 7000 CHF (about 6000 EUR)




Austria:
Tuition fees 750 EUR x4 semesters = 3000 EUR
Living expenses 600 EUR x 25 months = 15 000 EUR
2x student visa, books and other costs: 500 EUR
_________________________________

In total: 18 000 EUR cost
During my studies I would spend most of my time working 20 h/week in the area closely related to my studies.

Average salary after graduation: 1900-2200 EUR net



Since I am "Ausländer" in both countries, the only important thing for me is where I will have a higher standard of living.

According to what the numbers show - Switzerland.



How do you comment on the facts written above, do you have any advice for me?

The main question is whether the reputation of HSG as a university can overcome obstacles in the form of non EU citizenship? If the answer is yes then I definitely need to play risky and make an investment called HSG.
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Old 01.06.2018, 00:55
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

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Switzerland:
Tuition fees 2900 EUR x3 semesters = 8700 EUR
Living expenses: let's say per month 1000 EUR * 20 months = 20 000 EUR.
2x student visa, books and other costs: 1000 EUR
_______________________________

In total: 29 700 EUR cost
During my second or third semester I could work up to 15 hours per week and thus reduce costs.

Average salary after graduation? I do not know, what do you think? What I found on the Internet is 7000 CHF (about 6000 EUR)




Austria:
Tuition fees 750 EUR x4 semesters = 3000 EUR
Living expenses 600 EUR x 25 months = 15 000 EUR
2x student visa, books and other costs: 500 EUR
_________________________________

In total: 18 000 EUR cost
During my studies I would spend most of my time working 20 h/week in the area closely related to my studies.

Average salary after graduation: 1900-2200 EUR net



Since I am "Ausländer" in both countries, the only important thing for me is where I will have a higher standard of living.

According to what the numbers show - Switzerland.



How do you comment on the facts written above, do you have any advice for me?
Living costs is at least 1500-1700/month, not 1000. Just renting a WG-shack will cost you from 500-600 chf, more typically 800-900.

Also, as non-EU you will have trouble getting employment in CH, even with this equal status for 6 months after graduation. I dont know how it is in Austria.

To me, studying in CH without a scholarship is a bad investment. You can get comparable education quality twice cheaper in any other west-EU country. You can do a PhD here though, it is one of the best countries for that (you will get 4-4.5k for which you can afford a decent lifestyle, unlike the poor PhDs in rest of Europe)

Also, high quality of life is achievable anywhere, it is just the matter of picking the right profession and being able to sell yoursslf to a nice company. You can have a crappy job in CH or a fantastic one on Vienna/Munich/Lyon etc. And then you will not really find swiss life of high quality anymore.

Of course you might land a nice job in CH, but there is a big risk that you wont find a job in 6 months, then your bet wont work and you would've spent a lot of money. Also this big 6-7k or so salary will dissolve very quickly in CH, you should divide it by ca. 2 to get a reasonable comparison to the rest of eU.

P.S. HSG is a regular Uni. Unless you are not ETH/EPFL it won't give you any special door-opening experience. Even ETH/EPFL "brand" in most cases won't help, it is all about you CV and self-selling skill.

Last edited by LifeStrain; 01.06.2018 at 01:40.
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Old 01.06.2018, 02:44
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Don’t be fooled into thinking that for those 6 months after completing the graduation requirements you’ll be on equal footing with European citizens. It simply isn’t the case.The standard of living in Switzerland? Extremely tight housing supply, extremely high rents...
In Germany, except for certain cities such as Munich and Hamburg, housing is inexpensive. Also if you do your studies in Germany you’d be entitled to stay for at least a year after graduation to look for work, and to work during that time.
If you do your studies in France, you’ll be allowed to submit an application for citizenship after 2 years.
http://www.pret-a-voyager.com/2016/0...h-citizenship/
https://www.thelocal.fr/20180307/com...ch-nationality

Last edited by brda; 01.06.2018 at 04:23.
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Old 01.06.2018, 10:26
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

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Switzerland:
Tuition fees 2900 EUR x3 semesters = 8700 EUR
Living expenses: let's say per month 1000 EUR * 20 months = 20 000 EUR.
2x student visa, books and other costs: 1000 EUR
_______________________________

In total: 29 700 EUR cost
During my second or third semester I could work up to 15 hours per week and thus reduce costs.
I would rather count on CHF 1,500-2,000 to live in SG very frugally.


Regular costs: round off to CHF 1500
Rent: CHF 450 - WGs in SG are surprisingly cheap compared to the rest of CH: you can find rooms for CHF 400 per month.
Health: CHF 90 - you will need a student health insurance assuming any private one you may have in Serbia is not equivalent to Swiss KVG
Food: CHF 500 HSG and FHSG canteens are excellent and very cheap, cooking at home with Aldi groceries will be the least expensive option, still being expensive
Phone: CHF 20
Transport: CHF 52 - there are ways to avoid this, many people walk to uni
Plus incidentals

One-off costs assume around CHF 15,000
Fees: CHF 13,304 - count on needing 4 semesters to finish thesis
Flights back home: CHF 1,200 - Christmas holidays and summer, there are many buses from SG going to Serbia on a daily basis though, might be cheaper

Total costs: CHF 51,000 (24*1,500 + 15,000 approx.)

If you work at uni as an assistant in your second semester you can easily earn CHF 1,000, which should cover most of your ongoing costs. Part-time work at companies is also an option (very common for HSG students and no non-EU restriction even people not fluent in German manage this so I wouldn't worry for you). To give you an idea working 20% (so Fridays only) you would get CHF 700 monthly or so. If you also work during the summer, that's CHF 5,000 coming in for the months of July, August and September. If you are working, you will likely not need to ask your family more than what you receive in Vienna.

Potential earnings: CHF 27,500 (3 semesters earning CHF 1,000 plus summer earning CHF 12,500)

Gap to fill: CHF 23,500 (marginally higher than what you currently get in Vienna from your family over 24 months)

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Average salary after graduation? I do not know, what do you think? What I found on the Internet is 7000 CHF (about 6000 EUR)
Career starter at UBS/CS in ZH is CHF 80,000 p.a. to give you an idea.

Quote:
P.S. HSG is a regular Uni. Unless you are not ETH/EPFL it won't give you any special door-opening experience. Even ETH/EPFL "brand" in most cases won't help, it is all about you CV and self-selling skill.
Even though I agree with the last part you are obviously clueless. The brand HSG carries in CH, especially in ZH is very very strong. Alumni are everywhere and they heavily pull their own. In my experience the reputation ETH/EPFL has is that their students are insecure and only useful for technical / engineering type jobs.
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Old 02.06.2018, 01:47
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Thanks, I really appreciate your answers!


Hmm interesting.

Quote:
c) Hohes wissenschaftliches lnteresse:
In Frage kommen qualifizierte Wissenschaftlerinnen und Wissenschaftler in Bereichen, in
denen sie ihre erworbenen Fahigkeiten auf hohem Niveau ausuben konnen. Es handelt sich
dabei in der Regel um wissenschaftliche Arbeiten in der Forschung und Entwicklung, in der
Anwendung neuer Technologien oder um die Anwendung von erworbenem Know-how in
Tatigkeitsgebieten von hohem wirtschaftlichem lnteresse.

d) Hohes wirtschaftliches lnteresse:
Ein hohes wirtschaftliches lnteresse kann vorliegen, wenn fUr die abgeschlossene Fachrichtung
ein ausgewiesener Bedarf auf dem Arbeitsmarkt besteht, die abgeschlossene Fachrichtung
hoch spezialisiert ist und auf die Stelle zugeschnitten ist, die Besetzung der Stelle im
Rahmen einer Projektinvestition unmittelbar zusatzliche Stellen schafft oder neue Auftrage
fUr die Schweizer Wirtschaft generiert.

I have the feeling that this part of the law is written as if they were in some way interested in keeping EPFL and ETH graduates in the country and telling everyone else that it is time to go home.

The biggest obstacle is this above. Perhaps the most important question, if a particular company is interested in me, how much space for negotiation exists, are job centers flexible in this situation?

It would be strange if they strictly accept only the existing definition of scientific or economic interest. So in that case, no one with HSG degree and NON EU passport could get a work permit? A lot of foreigners study on HSG, many do not have EU passports, a large number of them remain in Switzerland... how?

Quote:
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Even though I agree with the last part you are obviously clueless. The brand HSG carries in CH, especially in ZH is very very strong. Alumni are everywhere and they heavily pull their own. In my experience the reputation ETH/EPFL has is that their students are insecure and only useful for technical / engineering type jobs.
Thank you both for the cost calculation! I would only move to Switzerland in a case I could get a job or a ticket for UK / USA, the option of returning to Austria after HSG makes no sense.

I'm a good student, within 5% of my generation. My parents know that and they will find a way to finance me, until i find a way to make money. I'm currently working 20h/week in one bank in Austria, a job I've found myself. What I want to say is that I'm confident in my ability to find a job, as far as my side is concerned, I can do it. On the other hand, I would be very upset that after all the bureaucracy says the opposite.

Mohmal, do you know someone who was in my situation?
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Old 02.06.2018, 10:42
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

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Thanks, I really appreciate your answers!

Thank you both for the cost calculation! I would only move to Switzerland in a case I could get a job or a ticket for UK / USA, the option of returning to Austria after HSG makes no sense.
HSG opens up the possibility for recruiting in London, where getting a visa for non-EUs is completely a non-issue. On top of that, you get the opportunity to recruit in ZH by being in situ. Forget about the USA for now unless you win the green card lottery.

Staying in Austria you will largely limit yourself to Austria (you could still try London from there, however ZH will be more difficult)

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I want to say is that I'm confident in my ability to find a job, as far as my side is concerned, I can do it.
Good, that's pretty much all you need.

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Mohmal, do you know someone who was in my situation?
Yes, not only in HSG but other unis too.
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Old 04.06.2018, 01:40
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Yeah, I think the same. By staying in Austria, I would limit myself to that country for a long period of time. Switzerland seems to be much better connected with the world.

What do you think, if a particular company is interested in me, how much space for negotiation exists with the institution related to the issuance of work permits, are job centers flexible in this situation?
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Old 04.06.2018, 08:57
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

It has nothing to do with job centres and I doubt there's very little flexibility since the decision is made by the cantonal and federal migration offices.

Have you thought of doing your Masters in Germany? Tuition cost is free for foreign students iirc.
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Old 04.06.2018, 20:38
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

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What do you think, if a particular company is interested in me, how much space for negotiation exists with the institution related to the issuance of work permits, are job centers flexible in this situation?
Not sure. Even my big-stick employer was nervously shaking when they submitted my visa application and had to wait almost 2 months for the decision. I was shaking too, BTW

P.S. and forget about applying for a permit in the period from September to December - non-EU quotas are mostly taken by that time.
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Old 08.09.2018, 17:36
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Hello everyone!

It's been 3 months since I opened this topic. Does anyone have more recent experiences?

Soon I will have to decide, so I'm particularly interested in whether somebody in the summer period managed to get an internship (when internship is not mandatory during studies)

Secondly, did anyone recently get work permit after completing the master program in Switzerland? I am interested in finance, because in all likelihood the job in this profession has no scientific significance for the community and that's why obtaining the work permit is difficult/impossible?


I am currently doing an internship in a good company in Austria and I have a good chance to get a permanent job after internship.

The problem is that the business in this corporation is strictly tied to Austria, classic 9-5 job and after obtaining a permanent job, I will probably stay in Austria for a long time. The international atmosphere and connection with the world corresponds more to me, and Switzerland is a bigger financial market where I would have more chances for progress (all bulge bracket banks have their departments in Switzerland)


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HSG opens up the possibility for recruiting in London, where getting a visa for non-EUs is completely a non-issue. On top of that, you get the opportunity to recruit in ZH by being in situ. Forget about the USA for now unless you win the green card lottery.
What is the situation with the internship in London for NON-EU after the first year of master's program in CH (during the first summer)?

Are you sure that a non-EU citizen with a HSG master can easily get a work permit in London? (after Brexit)
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Old 08.09.2018, 18:18
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

Legal situation in Austria with regard to obtaining a work permit after the master is very clear - RWR card, some employers will give up, but if they are interested in you many will agree - obtaining a work permit is absolutely possible and I know many who have passed this process.

Therefore, everything is up to the job seeker and one NON EU citizen who has studied in Austria can easily find a job (the experience of people I know).


In Switzerland, the situation is very vague ... everything can be interpreted in many ways, the laws are ambiguous. By law, there is a certain chance that it is simply impossible to get a work permit in a financial industry?

I would be very pleased to receive confirmation from someone that its possible to obtain the permit and that it is all up to me when I look a job - that I am not systematically prevented from obtaining permission by the state.
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Old 08.09.2018, 19:48
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Re: Non EU + Swiss university master diploma - is it possible to get a work permit?

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Legal situation in Austria with regard to obtaining a work permit after the master is very clear - RWR card, some employers will give up, but if they are interested in you many will agree - obtaining a work permit is absolutely possible and I know many who have passed this process.

Therefore, everything is up to the job seeker and one NON EU citizen who has studied in Austria can easily find a job (the experience of people I know).


In Switzerland, the situation is very vague ... everything can be interpreted in many ways, the laws are ambiguous. By law, there is a certain chance that it is simply impossible to get a work permit in a financial industry?

I would be very pleased to receive confirmation from someone that its possible to obtain the permit and that it is all up to me when I look a job - that I am not systematically prevented from obtaining permission by the state.
It all depends on you and your qualifications. We have hired several experts from non EU countries.

But then they all had a good track record and could show their expertise.
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