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  #41  
Old 26.08.2019, 23:04
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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My post above refers to a post-Brexit scenario of course....
In all honesty, that's a question that I'd pose to the British Embassy staff in Bern, and I bet they don't know the answer yet.

Brits in Europe face the real possibility of becoming 'landlocked' with the removal of their FMOP rights, and whilst the German government (in particular)have been exceptionally magnanimous in guaranteeing residency to all Brits currently living in Germany in the event of a No Deal scenario, I don't know where that would leave future frontaliers. I'd be lying if I said I did know.
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  #42  
Old 27.08.2019, 03:00
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Ok, but what is a bit confusing is if you are today on a B permit and living in Switzerland, but then decide to move to France - presume then you can't just exchange your B permit for a G permit anymore?

And how would you ever tick the 6 month residency criteria as you won't be able to be resident in Switzerland and France at the same time?
A B permit is not a permanent residence permit in any case. And how would you gain permanent resident status in either Germany or France, probably five years, as now. So five years permanent resident status and six months in the border region to get a G permanent.
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  #43  
Old 27.08.2019, 08:21
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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how would you gain permanent resident status in either Germany or France, probably five years, as now. So five years permanent resident status and six months in the border region to get a G permanent.
This would be the scenario only if CH and UK had no special arrangement in place for this particular category of British citizens and that CH goes on post-Brexit to newly consider UK citizens wholly as third country nationals (non EU/EFTA) for G permit purposes.

Moving to the neighbouring country before Brexit would probably avoid any risk.
Though it is also probable that CH is sympathetic to the UK's (and UK citizens') situation and grant special arrangements.
After all CH is the country that has special arrangements for practically everything to do with the EU.

For cross-border commuters it won't depend very much on the EU side, there you will just obviously need to be resident.
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  #44  
Old 27.08.2019, 10:28
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Though it is also probable that CH is sympathetic to the UK's (and UK citizens') situation and grant special arrangements.
This is not what the attitude is in Bern. It has already been announced that UK citizens are to be treated as third country nationals in case of a no-deal Brexit.

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After all CH is the country that has special arrangements for practically everything to do with the EU.
Exactly, with the EU which the UK has chosen to cease being a part of. Switzerland has other much more pressing priorities such as negotiating as many favorable terms as possible in the institutional agreement with the EU.
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  #45  
Old 27.08.2019, 10:34
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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This is not what the attitude is in Bern. It has already been announced that UK citizens are to be treated as third country nationals in case of a no-deal Brexit.
Well time will tell. I just can't see CH turning its back on the UK and its citizens entirely. There are a good number of Swiss citizens in the UK as well to think about.

I can understand why there are some UK citizens who are thinking of a move to just over the border and the various benefits it may bring them. Moving before any type of Brexit should mean that they will come under the old rules, especially with regard to EU residence.
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  #46  
Old 27.08.2019, 10:34
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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This is not what the attitude is in Bern. It has already been announced that UK citizens are to be treated as third country nationals in case of a no-deal Brexit.
Yes and no. No in the sense that UK nationals will have their own quota for new permit seekers. Yes in the sense that if you are not Swiss, or EU, you can only be third country.
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  #47  
Old 27.08.2019, 10:35
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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if you are not Swiss, or EU, you can only be third country.
With as always of course the usual exceptions of citizens of Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein who have special arrangements.
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  #48  
Old 27.08.2019, 10:45
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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There are a good number of Swiss citizens in the UK as well to think about.
On the news a week or so ago there was a bloke from the home office admitting they wouldn't have a clue how to implement immigration after a no-deal.

For EU citizens (incl Swiss citizens) currently in the UK as well as moving to the UK, it seems it won't be so arduous for the simple reason that the UK isn't geared up to sort out existing EU residents from newcomers, holiday makers from business people or family visits to people relocating to the UK.

As there is no way of knowing when an EU citizen entered the country or what for, someone could enter the UK on 1st November (or in December, January, or thereafter) and STILL be able to apply for permanent residence after 5 years because the UK wouldn't have a clue when they arrived.
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  #49  
Old 27.08.2019, 19:11
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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In all honesty, that's a question that I'd pose to the British Embassy staff in Bern, and I bet they don't know the answer yet.

The embassy staff are very nice and helpful to the extent they are able to be. There is already an agreement UK-CH in place (sorry, can't be arsed to go hunting for it, it's easily found on both countries' govt websites) but cross-border stuff is going to be the total no-no if they don't sort out the citizens rights stuff or even if they do (sorry, it makes my blood boil). Living in Geneva & kid has a football match in France every weekend? Forget it, that'll be gone - limited to 90 days in 180 as a tourist (your CH residence permit is your Schengen tourist visa).

The agreement does allow for some easing of TCN status until end 2020 (IIRC) subject to permit quotas but basically Brits in Europe (EZ & EEA/EFTA) are being utterly screwed by the UK government & nobody seems to give a damn.



TBH I find it really hard to believe there are still Brits in CH who aren't all over this and still asking fairly basic questions. If it affects your life and what you might want or need to do in the future, why aren't you reading everything you can on news websites, social media, embassy events etc etc? The British embassy held a FB Q&A just a couple of weeks ago, for instance
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  #50  
Old 27.08.2019, 22:04
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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As there is no way of knowing when an EU citizen entered the country or what for, someone could enter the UK on 1st November (or in December, January, or thereafter) and STILL be able to apply for permanent residence after 5 years because the UK wouldn't have a clue when they arrived.
Well if Boris keeps an open border in NI, they never will.....
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  #51  
Old 28.08.2019, 00:30
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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TBH I find it really hard to believe there are still Brits in CH who aren't all over this and still asking fairly basic questions. If it affects your life and what you might want or need to do in the future, why aren't you reading everything you can on news websites, social media, embassy events etc etc? The British embassy held a FB Q&A just a couple of weeks ago, for instance
Can only speak for myself, but I am. Been to 2 roadshows and the pre-Christmas afternoon tea talk at the Ambassador's residence last year. As you say, all the staff are very nice and helpful. Also managed to catch a few minutes 1 to 1 with the Ambassador. Particulary at the ambassador's residence, I heard questions raised that weren't mentioned at the roadshows...situations I hadn't even considered, but that was mainly because the attendees were from right across the country. One question that struck me was from an elderly lady whose healthcare was part of an agreement with the UK, and she was querying who would be responsible for her end of life care when the time came.

You will understand one of my personal concerns, in that I want to eventually retire to Greece as my OH is Greek. But that is a tiny compared to what many other people are concerned about.
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  #52  
Old 28.08.2019, 02:12
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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No in the sense that UK nationals will have their own quota for new permit seekers.
There will be a quota (maximum number of permits for UK citizens, independent of the total non-EU quota) but standard non-EU/EFTA admission will apply in case of a no-deal Brexit

https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/do...-id-73962.html

“UK citizens entering Switzerland for the first time will basically be accorded the same rights as other third country citizens. For admission to take up employment, the requirements set out in the Foreign Nationals and Integration Act (FNIA) apply.“
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Old 28.08.2019, 08:55
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

I guess the UK will have the same e-visa setup as the US after Brexit? It's quite annoying as I frequently travel to the UK. I checked this ESTA website, but it's not the official one. I double checked here and it's not..

Found this great page on the Swiss-UK relationship after Brexit: https://www.fdfa.admin.ch/dea/en/hom...en/brexit.html Maybe it helps.
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Old 28.08.2019, 10:31
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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I guess the UK will have the same e-visa setup as the US after Brexit? It's quite annoying as I frequently travel to the UK. I checked this ESTA website, but it's not the official one. I double checked here and it's not..

Found this great page on the Swiss-UK relationship after Brexit: https://www.fdfa.admin.ch/dea/en/hom...en/brexit.html Maybe it helps.
European council months ago already confirmed that UK citizens coming to Schengen country's will keep the 90 days Schengen visa free travel, I can't imagine Switzerland not joining in on this, if only it would be tourism already, and the same would go for the UK allowing other schengen citizens visa free 90 days.
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Old 28.08.2019, 12:26
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

I have read up as much information as I could find, including:

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...rexit/faq.html

What is still not 100% clear is if it will remain possible for someone who is already (and has been since 2016) on a B-permit to become a frontalier. I am inclined to guess no, because non-EU rules would apply, and I don't see how you could then become permanent resident in France (for 6 months) whilst working in Geneva, unless there is a way to establish residence in France whilst maintaining primary residence in Switzerland.
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  #56  
Old 28.08.2019, 12:30
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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What is still not 100% clear is if it will remain possible for someone who is already (and has been since 2016) on a B-permit to become a frontalier. I am inclined to guess no
Take up residence in France before Brexit to be on the safe side could be one suggestion. Permit swap can be done without a problem in this case.
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  #57  
Old 28.08.2019, 14:09
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Can only speak for myself, but I am. Been to 2 roadshows and the pre-Christmas afternoon tea talk at the Ambassador's residence last year. As you say, all the staff are very nice and helpful. Also managed to catch a few minutes 1 to 1 with the Ambassador. Particulary at the ambassador's residence, I heard questions raised that weren't mentioned at the roadshows...situations I hadn't even considered, but that was mainly because the attendees were from right across the country. One question that struck me was from an elderly lady whose healthcare was part of an agreement with the UK, and she was querying who would be responsible for her end of life care when the time came.

You will understand one of my personal concerns, in that I want to eventually retire to Greece as my OH is Greek. But that is a tiny compared to what many other people are concerned about.

Similar here (not Bern though); the sailing world is totally in the air, schools don't know whether they'll be able to employ people for a season, who knows what happens with VAT on boats, liveaboards totally f00ked owing to 90% of the accessible Med being in Schengen etc.
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Old 28.08.2019, 14:10
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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I have read up as much information as I could find, ...
Sorry to repeat myself, the only true clarity you're going to get is by speaking to the British Embassy in Bern. Just draft an email and send it.
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  #59  
Old 28.08.2019, 14:24
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

Parliament to be prorogued... I think it just got bigger than Brexit (if that's possible)
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Old 28.08.2019, 14:25
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Similar here (not Bern though); the sailing world is totally in the air, schools don't know whether they'll be able to employ people for a season, who knows what happens with VAT on boats, liveaboards totally f00ked owing to 90% of the accessible Med being in Schengen etc.
And if you had a Greek national silent partner?
I listened to a podcast interview with the lead singer of a British band on Monday. They're on tour in Europe during the next 'leave date'. I have tickets for them in Switzerland in early November. I've also read news about other British bands who will be touring Europe at the time. They don't know if they'll be allowed to perform from Nov 1. Currently, the law surrounding that is totally up in the air and their legal teams have stacks of provisional paperwork to submit to each venue, each city and each country in turn as events proceed, all of which will have to be rewritten and tweaked as things become clearer.

The whole situation and the myriad of knock on effects for millions of people's daily lives is bloody ridiculous, and for what? For some ethereal concept of taking back control? The only people taking anything positive from this are the bar stewards who've already raked their billions in from shorting Sterling. From here on in, they don't give a flying eff what happens to the rest of us, and they never did.

The next wave of beneficiaries are the ones hoping to make the UK an offshore tax haven. I sincerely wish I was making that up, but it has been repeatedly told to my by someone very close who owns an acountancy firm, and was emphasised again, face to face, 10 days ago.
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