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Old 05.07.2018, 10:48
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UK nationals work permit after Brexit

Hi all,

UK will be leaving the EU in March 2019.

I am a UK national here on a work permit B. Does anyone have any information on the latest between UK and Switzerland negotiations on movement of people?

UK gov has given little information:

UK Gov:
The citizens’ rights agreement does not cover UK nationals living in Switzerland. The UK is seeking to secure the same protections for UK nationals living in Switzerland as for UK nationals living in the EU, on a reciprocal basis, through an agreement with Switzerland.

The Swiss Gov has given some information on Swiss living in the UK.
It states "Swiss citizens looking to remain in the UK will also be asked to apply for this new ‘settled status’."

Given the reciprocal nature of these agreements, and that the UK gov indicated a similar agreement to the EU will be done with Switzerland, it looks likely UK citizens in the Swizerland will have to re-apply for residency next year.

Can anyone confirm this?
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Old 05.07.2018, 11:02
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

My uneducated guess is that if anything happens it would be more of a formality.. I doubt the Swiss will kick out x thousand skilled workers and their families overnight.

Then again who knows.. I'm hoping my C permit will help a bit just in case
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Old 05.07.2018, 11:07
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

I suspect the Swiss may be a little more realistic then either the UK or EU
With some reciprocity based the UK position.

My 2 rappen...

- new applicants will be under new rules
- existing permit holders stay under old rules until next application (B extension, or B to C)
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Old 05.07.2018, 11:10
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

My view:
It will probably be a "hard" Brexit and visa requirements will have to be renegotiated which will take some time as there will be an immense backlog of "activities" for the UK government , new visas will not be promptly given in that time (if at all) and renewals will be slow/lengthy (if at all)
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Old 05.07.2018, 11:24
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

get an irish passport
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Old 05.07.2018, 11:34
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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get an irish passport
Or a Swiss one.
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Old 05.07.2018, 12:42
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

If, and it is a big if, the EU/UK discussions are positive then Switzerland will likely apply the same rules as they agree to. If the UK/EU do not reach an agreement then all bets are off.

The simplest likely result then is that U.K. nationals will lose their status as EU nationals and will have to follow the rules for other third countries (like Australia, Canada, US, Zimbabwe).

In a protected dispute between the EU/UK Switzerland will take the EU’s side and anything they do Switzerland will do the same. In the (unlikely) event the EU begins to expel U.K. nationals then so will Switzerland.

Seeing as HMG doesn’t seem to know WTFTAD and appear to be unaware that the deadline for final and complete agreement is actually not 31 March 2019, but more likely September or October this year it appears more and more likely that an agreement will not be reached.

So yes, if you can, get an EU or Swiss passport.
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Old 05.07.2018, 13:44
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

At which point do we become eligible to claim asylum?
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Old 05.07.2018, 13:55
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Or a Swiss one.
you don't need to jump through hoops for the irish a couple of documents, a small fee and paddy's your uncle
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Old 05.07.2018, 14:07
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

Even if current permit holders are exempted from any new regulations, there's still this you have to deal with.

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

Due to come into force this year. So better start getting integrated or the permit may not be renewed anyway.
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Old 05.07.2018, 14:29
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

I think it is pretty much impossible to say what will happen at this stage, there are so many things in play:
- People who already have a C-Permit are almost certainly OK
- The EU/CH agreement requires us to give preference to EU/EEA citizens and the UK will be a third country
- The EU does not negotiate on be half of CH, so where will have to be some kind of separate agreement
- There is a fairly strong movement to restrict access to CH beyond what we have to...
- If CH gives the UK better terms than other third countries, then you can expect they will kick off for better terms etc...
- I'd expect that any such agreement will be associated with a trade agreement

We will just have to wait and see.
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Old 05.07.2018, 19:44
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Given the reciprocal nature of these agreements, and that the UK gov indicated a similar agreement to the EU will be done with Switzerland, it looks likely UK citizens in the Swizerland will have to re-apply for residency next year.

Can anyone confirm this?
Depends what is meant by "reciprocal". I would argue that the existing requirement to register with the Swiss authorities, acquire/renew work permits, notify them when you move, and so on, is already the same or maybe more rigorous than anything being proposed for Swiss in the UK.

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If, and it is a big if, the EU/UK discussions are positive then Switzerland will likely apply the same rules as they agree to. If the UK/EU do not reach an agreement then all bets are off.

The simplest likely result then is that U.K. nationals will lose their status as EU nationals and will have to follow the rules for other third countries (like Australia, Canada, US, Zimbabwe).

In a protected dispute between the EU/UK Switzerland will take the EU’s side and anything they do Switzerland will do the same. In the (unlikely) event the EU begins to expel U.K. nationals then so will Switzerland.
Call me complacent but IMO it's inconceivable that the EU and/or Switzerland will start wholesale expulsion of UK nationals. There may be groups at the margin who are vulnerable e.g. long term unemployed with no family ties, those with a criminal record, etc. etc. but I can't imagine any sweeping laws that forces migration of all and sundry. Apart from losing a lot of skilled, established workers there's the knowledge that the expelling country will soon have to cope with hundreds of thousands of their own citizens arriving back home without a job and probably without anywhere to live. It won't happen.
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Old 05.07.2018, 20:02
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Call me complacent but IMO it's inconceivable that the EU and/or Switzerland will start wholesale expulsion of UK nationals. There may be groups at the margin who are vulnerable e.g. long term unemployed with no family ties, those with a criminal record, etc. etc. but I can't imagine any sweeping laws that forces migration of all and sundry. Apart from losing a lot of skilled, established workers there's the knowledge that the expelling country will soon have to cope with hundreds of thousands of their own citizens arriving back home without a job and probably without anywhere to live. It won't happen.
Also there will be a lot of talks and lobbying in the background, Swiss companies benefit most from an as big as possible pool of possible employees, and they also do not want to lose their current employees.

I would not worry for a second about getting kicked out when leading a normal life with a job.
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Old 06.07.2018, 12:24
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

It appears the Cabinet is incapable of reaching an agreement, but even if they could it is unlikely UK negotiators will have any ability to deviate from any terms.

Has anyone been given the mandate to negotiate a fixed (in concrete) proposal. I have and I can tell you it is impossible position.
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Old 16.08.2018, 09:50
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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I think it is pretty much impossible to say what will happen at this stage, there are so many things in play:
- People who already have a C-Permit are almost certainly OK

We will just have to wait and see.
I heard the same from someone who is politically active. People with B permits are likely OK for a transition period which will go on for years since the Swiss are terrible at getting to an agreement on how to go forward.

In general, the Swiss are more concerned about 35,000 Swiss nationals living in the UK, so will not be inclined to do anything to the 41,000 UK citizens in CH.

Having said that, do not underestimate the rank incompetence of Theresa May. She seems able to throw the fat back in the fire every time something near an agreement is reached. In all likely-hood there will be no deal since the EU is now more worried about its Eastern Partners and Italy; they are now resigned to the no deal option. It is also too late now to implement any systems to support immigration and cross border tax.
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Old 16.08.2018, 10:16
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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People with B permits are likely OK for a transition period which will go on for years since the Swiss are terrible at getting to an agreement on how to go forward.
Just a minute, any transition agreement between the UK and the EU is just that. The EU can't commit Switzerland to it. And so far I'm not aware of any discussion going on officially between the UK and Switzerland as to what happens after BREXIT.
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Old 16.08.2018, 10:25
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

Nope, I meant a transition period between CH and UK, not between EU and UK. The point is that the Swiss government would not want to jeopardize their 35k citizens currently in the UK.
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Old 16.08.2018, 10:39
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

The current agreement between the UK and Switzerland is not an agreement between UK and Switzerland - the UK is part of the EU and the free movement of people is part of an EU/Switzerland agreement.

The UK is leaving the EU, therefore they need to make a new agreement with Switzerland. It is being negotiated: "The UK is seeking to secure the same protections for UK nationals living in Switzerland as for UK nationals living in the EU, on a reciprocal basis, through an agreement with Switzerland."
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Old 16.08.2018, 10:40
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Just a minute, any transition agreement between the UK and the EU is just that. The EU can't commit Switzerland to it. And so far I'm not aware of any discussion going on officially between the UK and Switzerland as to what happens after BREXIT.
Not officially, no

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Nope, I meant a transition period between CH and UK, not between EU and UK. The point is that the Swiss government would not want to jeopardize their 35k citizens currently in the UK.
Or the massive amount of trade that goes on between the 2 countries. I import from the UK and no one knows, or can guess what might happen to the procedures on the day after Brexit. It's a complete shambles.

Re permits, I'm fairly certain that if you're a Brit with a job here you certainly will not be thrown out. At worst, there may be more questions asked on permit renewal.
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Old 16.08.2018, 17:41
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Re: UK nationals work permit after Brexit

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Or the massive amount of trade that goes on between the 2 countries. I import from the UK and no one knows, or can guess what might happen to the procedures on the day after Brexit. It's a complete shambles.
I think the big problem for Switzerland will be justifying giving better conditions to the UK than to any other third country. The US, India and China would all be justified in demanding better terms and the possibility of having more foreigners in the country will set the SVP and friends off.
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