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Old 14.09.2018, 11:31
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Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if any of you have been or are in the same situation.

I am an Austrian (EU) citizen in a same-sex relationship with a South African (non-EU) citizen. We live in Sweden currently and my non-EU partner holds an EU residence card based on her relationship with an EU citizen.

We are unmarried.

I called the Swiss embassy in Stockholm just now and they said it is almost impossible to get a family reunification visa for my partner if I receive a B permit based on a work contract in Geneva - they said: "Even if you were married!"

I don't understand ... surely there are lots of people living in Geneva (thinking UN) that have non-EU partners and that even live in France and work in Geneva. I also understand that the apartment must be big enough for the both of us. We had to fulfill similar aspects when moving to Sweden, so we are aware of that.

We can prove having lived together for six years and the relationship is stable. We would even get married if that increased the chances of a family reunification visa.

But simply to say it is "nearly impossible" I find very odd.

Has anyone heard this before?

Looking forward to your replies Thank you and take care!
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Old 14.09.2018, 13:31
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

I don't know a lot about your actual question - others on here will probably give you some advice. However, you could consider just living in France? Your partner - it seems based on your post - could live with you there without issues?
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Old 14.09.2018, 14:15
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

A B-permit does not give the right for family-reunification, but some local cantonal migration authorities have rules/guidelines on which they decide whether to allow your family to come to Switzerland or not.

A non married couple is seen as two individuals and not as a couple, and unfortunately being gay can make things harder.

Best to take it up with your local cantonal migration authorities, since they know best how they rule.
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Old 14.09.2018, 15:09
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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a b-permit does not give the right for family-reunification
bs
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  #5  
Old 14.09.2018, 15:22
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

If you were married (eingetragene Partnerschaft), it wouldn't be a problem. This is a basic right of EU citizens under the agreement between the EU and Switzerland.
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Old 14.09.2018, 17:16
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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bs
If it's bull-shit than it is a right according to you.

Truth is that a B-permit simply sets what other criteria have to be met to be able to apply after which the local authorities may or may not decide in favour of the request, now based on equal treatment and such fitting the rulings will almost automatically grant the permit. But law does not state it as a right. (tho I can see why people feel it is a right)

Now Switzerland and many EU countries do not recognise gay-marriage, and thus it is up to those countries to decide if they treat registered partnerships as being fully legally identical towards marriage, the treaty gives these countries such freedom. It only forbids different treatment based on sex, but not on relational status, and no treaty obliges to recognise registered partnerships (Switzerland indeed does not see this as a thing for heterosexual couples, and deems them useless).

Now back to OP.

A main question to answer would be if registered partnership is seen as being legally equal when it comes to deciding if the partner legally has to be seen as a spouse when it comes to family-reunification. If this is to be answered with a yes, then it's just a formality to get the permit. If this answer is a no it all depends on the local authorities and how they rule.
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Old 14.09.2018, 17:17
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

UN employees don’t have permits. Different rules for them.
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Old 14.09.2018, 17:34
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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UN employees don’t have permits. Different rules for them.
What does the UN have to do with this thread?

Tom
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Old 14.09.2018, 17:38
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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What does the UN have to do with this thread?
Oh sorry, I just meant with the UN being such an international company, I would expect a lot of internationals working there. (I interned there, hence my comment, but thank you for telling me that they have different permits alltogether.)
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Old 14.09.2018, 17:43
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

Quote:
If it's bull-shit than it is a right according to you.
Truth is that a B-permit simply sets what other criteria have to be met to be able to apply after which the local authorities may or may not decide in favour of the request, now based on equal treatment and such fitting the rulings will almost automatically grant the permit. But law does not state it as a right. (tho I can see why people feel it is a right)
Agreement on Free Movement of Persons
Article 7
Other rights
The Contracting Parties shall make provision, in accordance with Annex I, for the following rights in relation to the free movement of persons:
...(d) the right of residence for members of the family, irrespective of their nationality;

I can see why I called it a right.

There may be certain restrictions but that doesn't change the fact that it is a right.
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Old 14.09.2018, 18:04
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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Agreement on Free Movement of Persons
Article 7
Other rights
The Contracting Parties shall make provision, in accordance with Annex I, for the following rights in relation to the free movement of persons:
...(d) the right of residence for members of the family, irrespective of their nationality;

I can see why I called it a right.

There may be certain restrictions but that doesn't change the fact that it is a right.
Swiss law is incredible clear on this imho.

Quote:
Art 43: Spouses and children of persons with a permanent residence permit

1 The foreign spouse and unmarried children under 18 of a person with a permanent residence permit who live with that person are entitled to be granted a residence permit and to have their residence permit extended.

2 After a law-abiding and uninterrupted residency of five years, the spouses are entitled to be granted a permanent residence permit.
3 Children under twelve are entitled to be granted a permanent residence permit.

Art 44: Spouses and children of persons with a residence permit.

The foreign spouse and unmarried children under 18 of a person with a residence permit may be granted a residence permit if:

A. they live with the permit holder;
B. suitable housing is available; and
C. they do not depend on social assistance.
Conclusion: With a C it is a right, with a B it is not a right but becomes a decision.
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Old 14.09.2018, 18:10
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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What does the UN have to do with this thread?

Tom
OP referred to it
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Old 14.09.2018, 19:12
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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Swiss law is incredible clear on this imho.

Indeed, though perhaps you should start at the beginning for a better understanding of that clarity:
Art. 2 Geltungsbereich

1 Dieses Gesetz gilt für Ausländerinnen und Ausländer, soweit keine anderen Bestimmungen des Bundesrechts oder von der Schweiz abgeschlossene völkerrechtliche Verträge zur Anwendung kommen.
2 Für Staatsangehörige der Mitgliedstaaten der Europäischen Gemeinschaft (EG), ihre Familienangehörigen sowie für in die Schweiz entsandte Arbeitnehmerinnen und Arbeitnehmer von Arbeitgebern, die in einem dieser Staaten ihren Wohnsitz oder Sitz haben, gilt dieses Gesetz nur so weit, als das Abkommen vom 21. Juni 19991 zwischen der Schweizerischen Eidgenossenschaft einerseits und der Europäischen Gemeinschaft und ihren Mitgliedstaaten andererseits über die Freizügigkeit keine abweichenden Bestimmungen enthält oder dieses Gesetz günstigere Bestimmungen vorsieht.
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Old 14.09.2018, 19:26
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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Indeed, though perhaps you should start at the beginning for a better understanding of that clarity:
Art. 2 Geltungsbereich

1 Dieses Gesetz gilt für Ausländerinnen und Ausländer, soweit keine anderen Bestimmungen des Bundesrechts oder von der Schweiz abgeschlossene völkerrechtliche Verträge zur Anwendung kommen.
2 Für Staatsangehörige der Mitgliedstaaten der Europäischen Gemeinschaft (EG), ihre Familienangehörigen sowie für in die Schweiz entsandte Arbeitnehmerinnen und Arbeitnehmer von Arbeitgebern, die in einem dieser Staaten ihren Wohnsitz oder Sitz haben, gilt dieses Gesetz nur so weit, als das Abkommen vom 21. Juni 19991 zwischen der Schweizerischen Eidgenossenschaft einerseits und der Europäischen Gemeinschaft und ihren Mitgliedstaaten andererseits über die Freizügigkeit keine abweichenden Bestimmungen enthält oder dieses Gesetz günstigere Bestimmungen vorsieht.
So a B permit only entitles to a permit for certain groups.

To me that still makes "A B-Permit grants right for family reunification" as a general statement wrong.

However we can debate about this for as long as we please but I am hated by enough here for my discussions..

What matters is how to get the family reunification rules to work for OP which boils down to:

A marriage is not recognised and will partnership grant the same rights under Swiss national laws?
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Old 14.09.2018, 19:41
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

Regroupement familial version Aug 2017
https://www.sem.admin.ch/content/dam...nnachzug-f.pdf

Quote:
Tout ressortissant de l’UE/AELE titulaire d’une autorisation de séjour ou d’une autorisation de séjour de courte durée (salariés, indépendants, non actifs, prestataires de services) peut se faire accompagner et ce, quelle que soit sa nationalité:
de son conjoint et de ses descendants (ainsi que de ceux de son conjoint) de moins de 21 ans ou à charge;
de ses ascendants et de ceux de son conjoint qui sont à charge (sauf pour l'étudiant).
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Old 14.09.2018, 20:00
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

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A marriage is not recognised and will partnership grant the same rights under Swiss national laws?

Yes.
Art. 52 Eingetragene Partnerschaft (AuG)


Die Bestimmungen dieses Kapitels über ausländische Ehegatten gelten für die eingetragene Partnerschaft gleichgeschlechtlicher Paare sinngemäss.


Actually, it all seems so clear. I can't help but wonder if there wasn't some kind of misunderstanding during the conversation with the Swiss embassy in Stockholm.
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Old 14.09.2018, 20:13
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

I also think it's odd that they say 'almost impossible even if you were married'.

we have at least one person here who is a nonEU who got his permit through marriage to an EU citizen.

Switzerland recognizes same sex marriages as civil partnerships. And Geneva is one of the cantons where non married couples can get permits.

Keep researching ! And call the canton high immigration office, not the consulate.

Last edited by miniMia; 14.09.2018 at 23:42. Reason: Repetition..:
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Old 14.09.2018, 20:55
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Re: Embassy said family reunification is "almost impossible" (EU + non-EU) in Geneva

Perhaps Pink Cross could advise.
https://www.pinkcross.ch/recht/rechtsberatung
https://www.pinkcross.ch/recht/migra...uslaenderrecht
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