Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08.11.2018, 11:31
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
munteanuv has no particular reputation at present
Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based company?

Hello,


I have a friend that is married with a Swiss woman. He doesn't have a Swiss citizenship, he was borne outside Europe. In 2017 he was hired by a Swiss based company to work in Romania on one of their projects there.

Since he was hired he has spent almost all his time living in Romania, but continued to pay taxes, health insurance and a flat in Geneva. Unfortunately the project was very demanding and he could spend only a few days per year in Switzerland.

His wish and plan was to gain a Swiss citizenship, on the basis of his marriage and on account that he was hired by this company.

Will the fact that he wasn't living in the country, but abroad (while still paying all the due taxes in Switzerland) affect his chances of getting a citizenship?


Thank you in advance for your answers!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19.11.2018, 21:05
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 21,373
Groaned at 369 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 16,175 Times in 9,189 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Being hired by a Swiss company has nothing to do with it. He can apply for citizenship via his marriage if he meets the necessary criteria. Residency may be a problem and I'm not sure if, under the new citizenship law that came into force this year, he needs a C permit or not.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Medea Fleecestealer for this post:
  #3  
Old 19.11.2018, 22:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

He needs to be resident in Switzerland for a minimum of 5 years and some communes insist he resides at least 2 or 3 of those years in same commune.


(this is the criteria once married to a Swiss citizen)
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #4  
Old 20.11.2018, 00:02
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,050
Groaned at 90 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 18,347 Times in 8,154 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Just read what is written in the law: https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a21
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 20.11.2018, 00:07
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,001
Groaned at 1,989 Times in 1,506 Posts
Thanked 34,446 Times in 16,380 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
He needs to be resident in Switzerland for a minimum of 5 years and some communes insist he resides at least 2 or 3 of those years in same commune.


(this is the criteria once married to a Swiss citizen)
Nope.

If not resident in CH, 6 years of marriage, and the comunes have no say if married to a Swiss, resident or not.

In any case, it is the commune of the attinenza of the Swiss spouse that matters, that of residence is irrelevant.

And no language requrement in either case.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #6  
Old 20.11.2018, 00:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: VD
Posts: 312
Groaned at 48 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 267 Times in 126 Posts
bugger has annoyed a few people around herebugger has annoyed a few people around herebugger has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Nonsense, language required in all cases.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at bugger for this post:
  #7  
Old 20.11.2018, 01:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,404
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,463 Times in 6,990 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

OP, my guess is that he had an international assignment and was considered resident during those years. Do check out what kind of contract he had and what was his residence status. But that time wouldn't be enough anyway, would just add up.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20.11.2018, 05:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 761
Groaned at 26 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 680 Times in 310 Posts
Marsalforn has a reputation beyond reputeMarsalforn has a reputation beyond reputeMarsalforn has a reputation beyond reputeMarsalforn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

If your friend really needs this info, it might be easier if he asks himself.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Marsalforn for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 20.11.2018, 08:46
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,404
Groaned at 328 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 13,988 Times in 6,145 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Puzzled by some of these answers - if he's paying tax and health insurance in Geneva then he's clearly employed, therefore resident, in Switzerland, no? In which case the fact that he's spent a lot of time out of the country shouldn't make any difference to citizenship requirements.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20.11.2018, 09:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,825
Groaned at 284 Times in 213 Posts
Thanked 17,431 Times in 6,128 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Puzzled by some of these answers - if he's paying tax and health insurance in Geneva then he's clearly employed, therefore resident, in Switzerland, no? In which case the fact that he's spent a lot of time out of the country shouldn't make any difference to citizenship requirements.

In that case he is also liable for taxes in Romania as he works there full-time.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20.11.2018, 09:32
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,001
Groaned at 1,989 Times in 1,506 Posts
Thanked 34,446 Times in 16,380 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Nonsense, language required in all cases.
Nonsense, it is not required for simplified naturalisation (i.e. married to a Swiss), nor is residence.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #12  
Old 20.11.2018, 10:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,404
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,463 Times in 6,990 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
In that case he is also liable for taxes in Romania as he works there full-time.
Expat contracts are a bit different i.e. the company is obligated to pay some social contributions and taxes there too, but the expat's residence is still somewhere else. I'm not sure if that time could count towards gaining Swiss citizenship, however, when it comes to residence permit renewal they do count. Or should. But hey ho, CH could be different than any other country in all regards.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20.11.2018, 10:54
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,001
Groaned at 1,989 Times in 1,506 Posts
Thanked 34,446 Times in 16,380 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

"I have a friend that is married with a Swiss woman."

Residency is NOT required, just 6 years of marriage.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20.11.2018, 11:15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: VD
Posts: 312
Groaned at 48 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 267 Times in 126 Posts
bugger has annoyed a few people around herebugger has annoyed a few people around herebugger has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Nonsense, it is not required for simplified naturalisation (i.e. married to a Swiss), nor is residence.

Tom
Such ignorance
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bugger for this useful post:
This user groans at bugger for this post:
  #15  
Old 20.11.2018, 11:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,424
Groaned at 29 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 23,975 Times in 7,548 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Expat contracts are a bit different i.e. the company is obligated to pay some social contributions and taxes there too, but the expat's residence is still somewhere else. I'm not sure if that time could count towards gaining Swiss citizenship, however, when it comes to residence permit renewal they do count. Or should. But hey ho, CH could be different than any other country in all regards.
I can't speak for any case other than our own, but:

OH was on an expat contract and permit B for the first 5 years we were here. As such he paid full fat Swiss income tax just as any other resident would have done. (And of course Uncle Sam's pound of flesh too, but that is the joy of the blue book...)

The 'perk' of the expat contract was that OH paid US social sec rather than AHV and was allowed to have company-provided international health insurance rather than Swiss health insurance.

The 5 years on the expat contract do indeed count towards qualification for C permits and for citizenship. We received our C permits after 5 years here, all on expat contract, and would have been able to apply for citizenship after 12, 5 expat, 7 local) had we been inclined to do so. The latter was verified with the canton back when we were toying with the idea.

Of course all this is many years ago.

Those 5 years where OH paid US Soc Sec rather than AHV mean that his AHV pension will be pro-rated at 5 years less than the years he spent working here/44, as one would expect.

And of course in the case of the OP, facilitated naturalisation applies as he is married to a Swiss. I am only bringing this up in response to the question of expat status vs years of residency qualification for the rest of us hoi-poloi.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 20.11.2018, 12:20
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,001
Groaned at 1,989 Times in 1,506 Posts
Thanked 34,446 Times in 16,380 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Such ignorance
Not on my part:

"Art. 21 Wife of a Swiss man or husband of a Swiss woman

2 Any person who lives or has lived abroad may also apply provided he or she:

a. has lived for six years in marital union with his or her wife or husband;

and

b. has close ties with Switzerland."

No language or residence requirements.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #17  
Old 20.11.2018, 12:29
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,050
Groaned at 90 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 18,347 Times in 8,154 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
No language or residence requirements.
Read Art. 20 which sets the default rules for facilitated naturalization. Then jump to Art. 12.

See also Section 512/12 in the SEM Handbook
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...g18-kap5-i.pdf
and also 422/131 in case the application is not made from abroad
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...g18-kap4-i.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20.11.2018, 13:03
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: VD
Posts: 312
Groaned at 48 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 267 Times in 126 Posts
bugger has annoyed a few people around herebugger has annoyed a few people around herebugger has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Not on my part:

"Art. 21 Wife of a Swiss man or husband of a Swiss woman

2 Any person who lives or has lived abroad may also apply provided he or she:

a. has lived for six years in marital union with his or her wife or husband;

and

b. has close ties with Switzerland."

No language or residence requirements.

Tom
Yes your part. Learn to read the whole section.

Art. 20 Substantive requirements
1 In the simplified naturalisation procedure, the criteria for integration set out in Article 12 paragraphs 1 and 2 must be met.

It was all over the news that from 1/1/2018 the laws changed and language is required even for facilitated naturalisation.

Btw, mr almighty mode Ace1 gave me a red blob saying "Either prove you're right or stop accusing others of ignorance". Did you give the other guy a red blob too?

Last edited by bugger; 20.11.2018 at 13:34.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bugger for this useful post:
This user groans at bugger for this post:
  #19  
Old 28.07.2019, 21:32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
munteanuv has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Thank you @Tom and also thank you very much @bugger:

Readin the points in the law:https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a21

Just rffering to art 12 Criteria for integration
1 Successful integration is demonstrated in particular by:

a. showing respect for public security and order;
b. respecting the values enshrined in the Federal Constitution;
c. being able to communicate in a national language in everyday situations, orally and in writing;
d. participating in economic life or by acquiring an education; and
e. encouraging and supporting the integration of one's wife or husband, registered partner or the minor children for whom one has parental responsibility.

The language issue is not a thing, he speaks fluent french.
Point "d. participating in economic life" considering that he is paid on a contract in CH and pays all taxes for this in CH could consider this check also. (There are no taxes to be paid in Romania as expat from what he told me).

Now jumping to art 21, par 2 Any person who lives or has lived abroad may also apply provided he or she:

a. has lived for six years in marital union with his or her wife or husband; and
b. has close ties with Switzerland.

Basically all he needs is to wait 6 years, this is the only mandatory thing, the law has no real requirement for actual living in CH during this 6 years?

Thank you all!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 28.07.2019, 21:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,825
Groaned at 284 Times in 213 Posts
Thanked 17,431 Times in 6,128 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is citizenship granted in case of working in a EU country for a Swiss based comp

Quote:
View Post
Point "d. participating in economic life" considering that he is paid on a contract in CH and pays all taxes for this in CH could consider this check also. (There are no taxes to be paid in Romania as expat from what he told me).
Using this logic, you also participate in economic life in case you have a holiday home here, for which you also pay taxes.

(hint: that also doesn't count)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
citizenship, marriage, spouse, work abroad




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Debt collection against company in a non-Swiss country (EU) MikeUSA Finance/banking/taxation 6 27.02.2016 18:53
Employee of Swiss company (AG), but work from other country (non-EU) vlad_island Permits/visas/government 1 12.07.2015 10:38
Working for Swiss company in EU - where to I pay taxes? bivanab Permits/visas/government 2 27.05.2013 17:49
Living and working in Switzerland for an EU-based company - health insurance advice? kestrel99 Insurance 14 30.07.2012 16:45
Working remotely from Geneva, own company in other EU country anders03 Permits/visas/government 1 08.01.2011 09:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0