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Old 20.12.2018, 15:09
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Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

Hello.

I am a British national currently holding a permit B which expires in February 2019. My permit was issued to carry out independent activities (self-employed. I have consistently lived and worked in Geneva, Switzerland over the last 5 years.

I have however had changes in my business activity from the initial issuance of my permit, I have established a new SA company in 2017 that has a different business model from the first company i established in 2013.

My question is will I automatically receive a permit C on expiry of my Permit B?
Do I have to fill out any forms?
Should I present myself at the OCP office before the date of expiry?

I visited the OCP office few months ago and they advised me that I will automatically receive the permit C and (invoice) through the post and I don’t have to do anything. However, on several threads here it is mentioned one should fill out form K if you do not receive any letters two months prior to expiry of the permit.

What should I do?
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Old 21.12.2018, 18:15
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

Hello !

I will use the original author's thread to also post my doubt and see if we all can obtain somehow a clarification on this topic

I have reading that conditions for work permit renewals on 2019 is getting harder: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society...ation/44325176

As usual, this information from online newspapers is not good at all and creates a lot of confusion, because it does not mention if this affects to ALL PEOPLE from around the world, or for Non-EU/EFTA citizens

Does anybody know if in 2019 the work permit renewal process gets harder to renew or they can even kick you out if you are EU/EFTA citizen but you do not speak german ? (i.e. Spanish)

I've even been told that a minimum level is required, no matter if you are from Europe or not. Before it was not like that. Some of my spanish/french/italian friends with a permanent contract were obtaining the C permit after 5 years of C

Thank you!!!
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Old 21.12.2018, 19:47
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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Hello.

I am a British national currently holding a permit B which expires in February 2019. My permit was issued to carry out independent activities (self-employed. I have consistently lived and worked in Geneva, Switzerland over the last 5 years.

I have however had changes in my business activity from the initial issuance of my permit, I have established a new SA company in 2017 that has a different business model from the first company i established in 2013.

My question is will I automatically receive a permit C on expiry of my Permit B?
Do I have to fill out any forms?
Should I present myself at the OCP office before the date of expiry?

I visited the OCP office few months ago and they advised me that I will automatically receive the permit C and (invoice) through the post and I don’t have to do anything. However, on several threads here it is mentioned one should fill out form K if you do not receive any letters two months prior to expiry of the permit.

What should I do?
Do nothing just wait because you should get a letter. When I was due a "C" I got a letter telling me that my new "B" was ready to collect. So I asked them why not a "C" and they looked again and applied for a "C" for me.

If you don't get anything a week or two before expiry then I would go to the office and ask.
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Old 15.01.2019, 14:04
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

We are also going through the process of a permit renewal, so I’ll share our (ongoing) experience. Husband and kids are Dutch and I am British.

Our experience seems nothing like what I’ve read on EF. Many have commented previously that they just received a C permit in the post! I’d certainly advise people to take what they read here on EF with a pinch of salt (simply because the goalposts are changing re Immigration)! And it would also be helpful when people commenting on their experiences re permit renewal, they do so with a bit more info (for example in which canton they had their permit renewed, and when).

Back to our experience - in December we received a letter from the Migrationsamt in Bern asking us to fill a form in and take it to our local gemeinde. The letter didn’t state anything other than “fill in this form, then go to gemeinde”. At the beginning of this month, we took our documents (passport, current B permit and the form sent to us by the Migrationsamt) to our local gemeinde. They made copies of passports and permits and took money (we are in CH, after all), then forwarded the lot to Bern! We were charged for the renewal of B permits, and not for a C permit! Perhaps that’s a sign of the type of permits we’ll receive.

Today I have received a letter addressed to my husband (he’s the one who is in gainful employment), asking him to send the following documents to the Migrationsamt in Zurich
- confirmation he’s still working, with emphasis on the number of hours he works during the week;
- an extract from the Betteibungsregister ;
- and confirmation from the local gemeinde that we have not received Sozialhilfe over the last 3 years!
However, no mention of language certification - I guess this is because OH is Dutch.

So it seems that the days of getting an early C permit in the post are long gone!
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Old 15.01.2019, 14:16
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

It has always varied by canton as well. In some cases (according to what others have written on this and other threads) they received a permit C without specifying, others received a permit B because they didn't specify they wanted an early C.
After 4 years and 10 months, I applied for an early permit C as I was EU. It was granted, but it took about 8 months to arrive during which time there was a police visit and I was in a canton that takes your permit off you for the entire duration of renewal so I did not have any document during that time either.

My advice, if you want an early permit C, specify it when renewing your permit B, it simply avoids problems.

The law states that the early permit C for EU citizens is a request, this can be granted or turned down. In the worse case you simply get another 5-year permit B.
The law doesn't say than an early permit C is granted to EU citizens automatically, even though (according to some) this may have happened.
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Old 15.01.2019, 14:32
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

4 years and 10 months is not an early C for EU persons


It is the normal time at which EU persons can apply for a C permit.




Anyway, my experience in Zurich is exactly the same as Clumsymamans, will see what happens this year as I need to extend by June.
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Old 15.01.2019, 14:52
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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4 years and 10 months is not an early C for EU persons


It is the normal time at which EU persons can apply for a C permit.
Wrong. If a permit C is not specified in the renewal request after 5 years then another permit B is issued (generally). I refer to this as an early permit C as you get it after 5 years rather than 10.
I've never come across any case of a permit C being issued even earlier.
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Old 15.01.2019, 14:57
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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Wrong. If a permit C is not specified in the renewal request after 5 years then another permit B is issued (generally). I refer to this as an early permit C as you get it after 5 years rather than 10.
I've never come across any case of a permit C being issued even earlier.

No, it is not an early C permit:



EU-17 (except Cyprus and Malta) and EFTA nationals are granted settlement permits pursuant to settlement treaties or reciprocal agreements after five years’ regular and uninterrupted residence in Switzerland.


https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home...c_eu_efta.html
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Old 15.01.2019, 15:14
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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Wrong. If a permit C is not specified in the renewal request after 5 years then another permit B is issued (generally)....
The form we were asked to fill in did not have any box where you could request a C permit. We did speak to our local gemeinde and mention we’d like to request a C permit. But it was only a verbal request. Whether this request makes it to the right authority, who knows!

It’s all a case of YMMV.
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Old 15.01.2019, 15:24
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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No, it is not an early C permit:



EU-17 (except Cyprus and Malta) and EFTA nationals are granted settlement permits pursuant to settlement treaties or reciprocal agreements after five years’ regular and uninterrupted residence in Switzerland.


https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home...c_eu_efta.html
There is a subtle difference between EU countries whose citizens have a right to a C permit after 5 years and EU countries whose citizens can apply for a C permit under the ordinary process after 5 years instead of 10, but have no right to get one.

Only BE, DE, DK, FR, GR, IT, NL, AT, PT, ES citizens have a right to a C permit after 5 years in Switzerland. Britain is on the second list (no automatic right).
Source: lists 8.1 and 8.2 here.

Not having an automatic right generally means that you have to explicitly ask for something. They could issue a C permit themselves, but they don't have to and one shouldn't rely on it.
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Old 15.01.2019, 15:27
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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The form we were asked to fill in did not have any box where you could request a C permit. We did speak to our local gemeinde and mention we’d like to request a C permit. But it was only a verbal request. Whether this request makes it to the right authority, who knows!

It’s all a case of YMMV.
It has a field called "Bemerkungen" where you can write that you are applying for a C permit under this and this article of AuG (as well as any other comments you have for your application).

You should definitely not rely on any verbal request made to the Gemeinde as they do not decide anything here, they just forward the papers to the Migrationsamt of canton Zurich, they could make this remark on the papers for you, or they could not care or forget.
But judging by the letter you received, they actually did
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Old 15.01.2019, 15:28
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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The form we were asked to fill in did not have any box where you could request a C permit. We did speak to our local gemeinde and mention we’d like to request a C permit. But it was only a verbal request. Whether this request makes it to the right authority, who knows!

It’s all a case of YMMV.
Canton Vaud - Last March.

Our B expired in Feb 2018.. Local commune invited me to come in and "sign the forms" , bring xxx chf for a B and yyy chf for a C.. Bring passports & work contract.

I took the stuff, lady copied it all and handed me 4 forms she had already filled in for me, except for signing them.. She said "would you like a C?" .. I said yes and she took her yellow highlight pen and wrote a big C on the top of each form.. I signed, paid and left.. C permits arrived a few weeks later.

So I guess very similar.. It was not a different form or a check box. Just a permit renewal - with a big hand written C on it. Maybe it's a secret code the communes send to head quarters
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Old 16.01.2019, 08:28
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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No, it is not an early C permit: EU-17 (except Cyprus and Malta) and EFTA nationals are granted settlement permits pursuant to settlement treaties or reciprocal agreements after five years’ regular and uninterrupted residence in Switzerland.
Wrong! If a Permit C is not asked for specifically upon first renewal of Permit B after 5 years, another Permit B may be given. I call getting the Permit C after 5 years instead of 10, getting it early.
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Old 16.01.2019, 08:45
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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Wrong. If a permit C is not specified in the renewal request after 5 years then another permit B is issued (generally). I refer to this as an early permit C as you get it after 5 years rather than 10.
I've never come across any case of a permit C being issued even earlier.
I Neuchâtel a C permit is automatically issued to all EU-17 and EFTA nationals upon renewal of a 5 year B permit.

We just have to sign the B renewal form and hand it in to the commune. No extra documentation is requested and no request for a C permit is made. The C permit just magically arrives about a week later and costs 80 chf.

As with most things here it really does vary depending on the canton.
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Old 16.01.2019, 08:54
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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As with most things here it really does vary depending on the canton.
Which is exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. My experience was totally the opposite. I got an early permit C (after 5 years instead of 10) only because I requested it and it took more than half a year to arrive. Nothing was quick or automatic.
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Old 22.01.2019, 23:41
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

I'll let ya'll know what will happen when I get the form in June for Kt. Solothurn. Depending on Brexit I may be covered under freedom of movement or May already be screwed by May and be under this new bilateral agreement.

I'll nip off to the Geminde to see what they think but probably just need to wait.
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Old 23.01.2019, 01:40
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

Be aware that in Zurich and other cantons where the gemeinde tax rates are different there could be a tax disadvantage (or advatnage) to going on a C.
I'm still not really sure otherwise what advantages a C brings over a B.


In Basel I received a form but it didn't say it was for B renewal or C application, just to fill it out. I took it and some other documents to the immigration office, they took the form and my money, didn't look at any of the other documents and I got a C a couple of weeks later.
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Old 23.01.2019, 07:43
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

Both Permit B and Permit C have advantages over the other. It entirely depends on one's situation.
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Old 23.01.2019, 09:28
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

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I Neuchâtel a C permit is automatically issued to all EU-17 and EFTA nationals upon renewal of a 5 year B permit.

We just have to sign the B renewal form and hand it in to the commune. No extra documentation is requested and no request for a C permit is made. The C permit just magically arrives about a week later and costs 80 chf.

As with most things here it really does vary depending on the canton.
yeah seconding this. Canton Vaud, 5 year B > straight to C after. then at C renewal this year they didnt ask for anything like language certs etc.

It'll all arrive, but its switzerland: a quick turnaround is about 8 years.
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Old 23.01.2019, 11:16
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Re: Permit B Expiry / Acquiring Permit C

My husband with British passport in Vaud got C permit after 5 years. He received the form to fill up and there was a box to cross saying something like cross here if you want to get permit C. It was like 2 years ago.
Me and kids with polish passports got again permit B after 5 years. We received different form than my husband.
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