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  #61  
Old 31.12.2019, 14:49
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

If you're from one of these countries then you're exempt from the language requirement.

Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

Yes, probably, if you want to upgrade to a B, assuming you can, then you'll need to meet the language requirements.

Any EU/ETFA nationals not on the above list will have to meet the language requirements whenever their permits become due for renewal as far as we know. This has yet to be tested by long term permit holders.

As far as I know the law is Federal not cantonal. Whether a canton decides to ask for more stringent requirements is up to them, but I expect that should already be on their websites by now since the law's been in force since the beginning of this year.
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  #62  
Old 31.12.2019, 14:59
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

What is the reason by the exemption for some countries? I understand those that share a Swiss language, but the others?
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  #63  
Old 31.12.2019, 15:06
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

Agreements between the various countries that they're exempt so I understand from reading posts here on the forum.
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  #64  
Old 31.12.2019, 15:12
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

Bilateral agreements that pre-date the bilateral accords most likely.
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  #65  
Old 31.12.2019, 15:47
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

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Bilateral agreements that pre-date the bilateral accords most likely.
This.

Just old agreements that never got cancelled/changed.
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  #66  
Old 01.01.2020, 16:07
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

Hi everyone,

I saw this article yesterday: https://www.thelocal.ch/20191231/str...in-switzerland

Where can I find the law this article is referring that specifies the exact requirements for different permits?

Currently I've been holding an L permit for 9 months. It expires in three months. My employer is willing to extend my contract for another year. Am I correct in my understanding that I can extend my L permit for another year without the need to prove the language skills since the new rules are in effect for B and C permits?
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  #67  
Old 01.01.2020, 16:54
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

Yes, because L permits are seen as temporary. However, if you later want your employer to try for a B then you'll probably need to show either proficiency in a Swiss language (the official one for your canton) or at least be enrolled in a language course.
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  #68  
Old 01.01.2020, 17:48
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

Thanks, that's good to know. I should get more serious with my French though.
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  #69  
Old 02.01.2020, 08:40
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

What is this likely to mean for the many IT workers from Poland and India? Wipro etc.?
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  #70  
Old 02.01.2020, 08:57
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

It doesn't apply to EU nationals due to FMOP.

Tom
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  #71  
Old 02.01.2020, 09:28
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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It doesn't apply to EU nationals due to FMOP.

Tom
Whatever gave you that idea? It certainly does apply to EU nationals unless they are one of the exempt nationalities.

(Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.)
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  #72  
Old 02.01.2020, 09:34
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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Whatever gave you that idea?
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html

"2 For citizens of member states of the European Community (EC), their family members, and employees posted to Switzerland by employers resident or with their registered office in these states, this Act applies only to the extent that the Agreement of 21 June 1999 between the Swiss Confederation on the one hand and the European Community and their Member States on the other hand on Freedom of Movement does not contain any different provisions or that this Act provides for more advantageous provisions."

Tom
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  #73  
Old 02.01.2020, 11:06
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html

"2 For citizens of member states of the European Community (EC), their family members, and employees posted to Switzerland by employers resident or with their registered office in these states, this Act applies only to the extent that the Agreement of 21 June 1999 between the Swiss Confederation on the one hand and the European Community and their Member States on the other hand on Freedom of Movement does not contain any different provisions or that this Act provides for more advantageous provisions."

Tom
The FMOP agreement https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...648/index.html does not regulate permanent residency in anyway.

AFAIK this means:
Any language requirements regarding permit B and L does not apply for EU nationals and their non-EU family members. Job related language requirement might apply.

There is no language requirement regarding permit B for non-EU family members of Swiss. Job related language requirement might apply.

In conclusion family member of Swiss and EU persons are treated the same in respect of language requirement.

The language requirement regarding permit C apply to all, even family members of Swiss. Exception due to bilateral treaties to people from Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

In addition: AFAIK there is no language requirement regarding permit B for non-depended individuals. Job related language requirement might apply.
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  #74  
Old 04.09.2020, 17:54
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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TL;DR: No, the language requirement applies only to you and not your husband.

The authoritative regulation on this is called VZAE/OASA. (German, French).

As far as only B permits are concerned, the A1/2 requirements for extension only apply for dependents and not to primary permit holders with the single exception of the profession of teachers and religious preachers (Art. 22a).
Just search for " A1" in the text -- there's quite a lot of articles touching on this, but they're either concerning dependent permits or cases like transitioning from a temporarily admitted refugee status to an ordinary residence permit.

Also, if one is hit by this requirement for the first time, signing up for a language class that covers at least A1 by next renewal is enough (Art. 74a.2).

However, B1 for an early C permit is now a federal requirement (and A2 for the 10-year now, though that was always the case).

Edit: however, as British citizens you can apply for a 'normal' C permit after 5 years of residence (see list 8.2 here).
That would require only A2 and you could apply for it on your own (unlike the case of an 'early' one, as in that case all family members are considered even when only one applies and all of them must have at least A2).

As long as your existing B permits are not affected by Brexit (let's hope not but nobody really knows it at the moment) everything in my post should apply regardless of its outcome. The VZAE is general and applies to all nationalities not covered by another treaty (which UK currently is because of EU but might cease to be), and the treaty about the normal C permit after 5 years is directly between Switzerland and UK and has nothing to do with its EU membership.

As per the latest federal guidelines (Please see attached PDF), one can apply for C permit via 'normal' route after 10 years of residence and via 'fast track' route after 5 years of residence.

For 'Normal' route the language requirements are - A2 Oral and A1 level written

For 'Fast track', it is B1 level Oral and A2 level written


Was wondering if certain nationalities (British/US/Canada) would still need 'Fast track' level language skills, even though their 'Normal' route residence requirement is 5 years? (unlike 10 years of residence that a third country nationals need in order to apply under 'normal' route)
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  #75  
Old 04.09.2020, 19:21
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

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If you're from one of these countries then you're exempt from the language requirement.

Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

Yes, probably, if you want to upgrade to a B, assuming you can, then you'll need to meet the language requirements.

Any EU/ETFA nationals not on the above list will have to meet the language requirements whenever their permits become due for renewal as far as we know. This has yet to be tested by long term permit holders.

As far as I know the law is Federal not cantonal. Whether a canton decides to ask for more stringent requirements is up to them, but I expect that should already be on their websites by now since the law's been in force since the beginning of this year.
You and Belgiummum are, I believe (although feel free to let me know if you disagree), not correct and are confusing the rules for B and C permits.

Switzerland is, as I understand it, not allowed to apply language requirements for residence permits to EEA (and UK for the time being) people due to FMOP. Switzerland can never remove a B permit from an EEA person due to lack of language capability.

When it comes to permanent residence (C permits) FMOP does not apply and Switzerland is free to set its own requirements. It has agreed with several Europan countries on a bilateral basis to remove the language requirements. It has not done so for others. But this only relates to permanent residence, as there is already no requirement for B permit EEA people to have language skills due to FMOP.
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  #76  
Old 04.09.2020, 19:31
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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As per the latest federal guidelines (Please see attached PDF), one can apply for C permit via 'normal' route after 10 years of residence and via 'fast track' route after 5 years of residence.

For 'Normal' route the language requirements are - A2 Oral and A1 level written

For 'Fast track', it is B1 level Oral and A2 level written


Was wondering if certain nationalities (British/US/Canada) would still need 'Fast track' level language skills, even though their 'Normal' route residence requirement is 5 years? (unlike 10 years of residence that a third country nationals need in order to apply under 'normal' route)
For existing Brits who came here on FMOP I'd imagine it's A2 oral and A1 written, because we are basically treated like EEA people in most regards, though I'd be interested if anyone could confirm that.

Especially as I could probably pass A2 oral and A1 written but not B1 oral and A2 written!
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  #77  
Old 04.09.2020, 19:39
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

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You and Belgiummum are, I believe (although feel free to let me know if you disagree), not correct and are confusing the rules for B and C permits.

Switzerland is, as I understand it, not allowed to apply language requirements for residence permits to EEA (and UK for the time being) people due to FMOP. Switzerland can never remove a B permit from an EEA person due to lack of language capability.

When it comes to permanent residence (C permits) FMOP does not apply and Switzerland is free to set its own requirements. It has agreed with several Europan countries on a bilateral basis to remove the language requirements. It has not done so for others. But this only relates to permanent residence, as there is already no requirement for B permit EEA people to have language skills due to FMOP.
Well, time will tell.
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  #78  
Old 04.09.2020, 21:35
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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For 'Normal' route the language requirements are - A2 Oral and A1 level written

For 'Fast track', it is B1 level Oral and A2 level written

Was wondering if certain nationalities (British/US/Canada) would still need 'Fast track' level language skills, even though their 'Normal' route residence requirement is 5 years? (unlike 10 years of residence that a third country nationals need in order to apply under 'normal' route)
Change "Fast track" into "Good integration". Also the above mentioned language skills are the federal minimums. Cantons can set higher requirements. For example canton Zurich demands spoken and written A2 for normal and B1 for good integration.

People from countries such a s Sweden, Finland, Canada, Andorra, UK, USA, etc. which can apply for C after 5 years instead of 10 have to fulfill the normal language requirements.

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For existing Brits who came here on FMOP I'd imagine it's A2 oral and A1 written, because we are basically treated like EEA people in most regards, though I'd be interested if anyone could confirm that.
In general there is no special preference for EU/EEA countries. It is just a coincidence that such countries which have a shorter residency requirement are mostly EU/EEA countries.
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  #79  
Old 04.09.2020, 21:54
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Re: 2020 language requirements for permits

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You and Belgiummum are, I believe (although feel free to let me know if you disagree), not correct and are confusing the rules for B and C permits.

Switzerland is, as I understand it, not allowed to apply language requirements for residence permits to EEA (and UK for the time being) people due to FMOP. Switzerland can never remove a B permit from an EEA person due to lack of language capability.

When it comes to permanent residence (C permits) FMOP does not apply and Switzerland is free to set its own requirements. It has agreed with several Europan countries on a bilateral basis to remove the language requirements. It has not done so for others. But this only relates to permanent residence, as there is already no requirement for B permit EEA people to have language skills due to FMOP.
I don’t know where you got the idea that I was confused, I only ever commented on the requirements for a C permit.
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  #80  
Old 05.09.2020, 08:25
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Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?

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People from countries such a s Sweden, Finland, Canada, Andorra, UK, USA, etc. which can apply for C after 5 years instead of 10 have to fulfill the normal language requirements.


In general there is no special preference for EU/EEA countries. It is just a coincidence that such countries which have a shorter residency requirement are mostly EU/EEA countries.
Correct. As per Geneva government site, applicants from above mentioned nationalities can apply for C after 5 years of residence with A2 level oral/written

https://www.ge.ch/demander-permis-c/...mande-permis-c

Last edited by dilip_gem; 05.09.2020 at 09:46.
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