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-   -   New language requirements for B/C permit renewal? (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/288987-new-language-requirements-b-c-permit-renewal.html)

Auburn 04.01.2019 12:07

New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Hello all,

I recently saw this article posted by someone on an expat facebook group. https://blog.newlandchase.com/switze...ts?hs_amp=true

It says that from 1 January, a language level of A1 *may* be required for a renewal of a B permit, A2 for a C permit after 10 years and B1 for an early C permit (after 5 years). This has to do with demonstrating a willingness to integrate.

Information elsewhere is less clear. Nothing is yet stated on the Vaud cantonal website (where we live) but in Fribourg it seems to suggest that this requirement is only for those on a family reunification B permit (that would be me and not my husband). https://www.fr.ch/spomi/vie-quotidie...les-conditions

We're here on B permits. I am A2 level, but my husband works 12-14 hours a day, sometimes more, in an English-speaking company and has not had a chance to learn French. His B permit is up for renewal in September. I'm a bit concerned that he won't be able to get to A1 level in 9 months (keeping in mind that he has very little spare time and many courses don't run over the summer). We have found a beginning level (A0) Migros course once a week in the evening, but his employer is not particularly cooperative with this idea as it will take him away from work. He can't do anything more intensive because of the work hours. Obviously he will make learning French a priority if it's required, regardless of what his employer says! To make things possibly more complicated we are British, so not sure if the requirements will change after Brexit.

We've just bought a house and want to stay long term. Should we be concerned?

NichtsBesonders 04.01.2019 14:42

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Auburn (Post 3027282)
Hello all,

I recently saw this article posted by someone on an expat facebook group. https://blog.newlandchase.com/switze...ts?hs_amp=true

It says that from 1 January, a language level of A1 *may* be required for a renewal of a B permit, A2 for a C permit after 10 years and B1 for an early C permit (after 5 years). This has to do with demonstrating a willingness to integrate.

Information elsewhere is less clear. Nothing is yet stated on the Vaud cantonal website (where we live) but in Fribourg it seems to suggest that this requirement is only for those on a family reunification B permit (that would be me and not my husband). https://www.fr.ch/spomi/vie-quotidie...les-conditions

We're here on B permits. I am A2 level, but my husband works 12-14 hours a day, sometimes more, in an English-speaking company and has not had a chance to learn French. His B permit is up for renewal in September. I'm a bit concerned that he won't be able to get to A1 level in 9 months (keeping in mind that he has very little spare time and many courses don't run over the summer). We have found a beginning level (A0) Migros course once a week in the evening, but his employer is not particularly cooperative with this idea as it will take him away from work. He can't do anything more intensive because of the work hours. Obviously he will make learning French a priority if it's required, regardless of what his employer says! To make things possibly more complicated we are British, so not sure if the requirements will change after Brexit.

We've just bought a house and want to stay long term. Should we be concerned?

TL;DR: No, the language requirement applies only to you and not your husband.

The authoritative regulation on this is called VZAE/OASA. (German, French).

As far as only B permits are concerned, the A1/2 requirements for extension only apply for dependents and not to primary permit holders with the single exception of the profession of teachers and religious preachers (Art. 22a).
Just search for " A1" in the text -- there's quite a lot of articles touching on this, but they're either concerning dependent permits or cases like transitioning from a temporarily admitted refugee status to an ordinary residence permit.

Also, if one is hit by this requirement for the first time, signing up for a language class that covers at least A1 by next renewal is enough (Art. 74a.2).

However, B1 for an early C permit is now a federal requirement (and A2 for the 10-year now, though that was always the case).

Edit: however, as British citizens you can apply for a 'normal' C permit after 5 years of residence (see list 8.2 here).
That would require only A2 and you could apply for it on your own (unlike the case of an 'early' one, as in that case all family members are considered even when only one applies and all of them must have at least A2).

As long as your existing B permits are not affected by Brexit (let's hope not but nobody really knows it at the moment) everything in my post should apply regardless of its outcome. The VZAE is general and applies to all nationalities not covered by another treaty (which UK currently is because of EU but might cease to be), and the treaty about the normal C permit after 5 years is directly between Switzerland and UK and has nothing to do with its EU membership.

Medea Fleecestealer 04.01.2019 16:03

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
It's not just language either, it's about being integrated into Swiss life.

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/in-laws...2019-/44616420

Auburn 04.01.2019 16:33

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NichtsBesonders (Post 3027332)
TL;DR: No, the language requirement applies only to you and not your husband.

Thanks for that very comprehensive reply! It's helpful to know, though he's panic-booked his course and probably can't get out if it! (Probably a good thing as he should learn how to speak :msngrin:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NichtsBesonders (Post 3027332)
As long as your existing B permits are not affected by Brexit (let's hope not but nobody really knows it at the moment) everything in my post should apply regardless of its outcome. The VZAE is general and applies to all nationalities not covered by another treaty (which UK currently is because of EU but might cease to be), and the treaty about the normal C permit after 5 years is directly between Switzerland and UK and has nothing to do with its EU membership.

Is there any benefit to only one of us having a C permit? I recently spoke to someone in this position and it had negative tax implications for them as a couple. We have a son so would he also get a C permit if I did?

aSwissInTheUS 04.01.2019 16:35

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NichtsBesonders (Post 3027332)
As long as your existing B permits are not affected by Brexit (let's hope not but nobody really knows it at the moment)

Nobody? https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...ed-20-dec.html

Quote:

On 19 December, the Federal Council adopted an agreement with the UK on migration-related matters. If the free movement of persons ceases to apply to the UK, this new agreement will protect the rights of Swiss nationals in the UK – which they acquired under the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP) – such as residency and social security rights and the recognition of professional qualifications. Reciprocal conditions will apply to UK nationals in Switzerland. This new agreement will not apply to people who immigrate after the AFMP is no longer valid.
https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/dea/en/...-Brexit_en.pdf

Auburn 04.01.2019 16:37

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Thanks, I'm aware of this. I thought it wouldn't be a huge problem (our son goes to the local school, is fully fluent and integrated) but I'm not sure if I can personally demonstrate it very concretely as I do not go to any clubs etc. Is that something I need to do? Maybe I should join the parents' organisation at the school or something...

NichtsBesonders 04.01.2019 16:42

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Auburn (Post 3027365)
Thanks for that very comprehensive reply! It's helpful to know, though he's panic-booked his course and probably can't get out if it! (Probably a good thing as he should learn how to speak :msngrin:)



Is there any benefit to only one of us having a C permit? I recently spoke to someone in this position and it had negative tax implications for them as a couple. We have a son so would he also get a C permit if I did?

From a tax perspective, a family with only one C permit holder should not be any different from a family with both C permit holders as in both cases the tax at source should no longer apply to both of them (and in both cases the family will have to fill out a tax declaration and the effective taxes will be calculated from that).

All minor children should get a C permit once either of their parents has one. The only case when something can be required of the children is when a parent is going the route of an 'early' C permit based on integration and the child is more than 12 years old, then I think they'll need an attestation from the school that they're doing well there. But being British you can go with the normal procedure after 5 years where it doesn't apply.

NichtsBesonders 04.01.2019 16:44

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3027367)
Nobody?

Ah cool, I wasn't aware of that. Not being British I don't closely follow the Brexit drama, and this practically just happened :)

meloncollie 04.01.2019 17:24

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
We are on the verge of making an offer on a holiday home, something that I (non EU) can only buy because I have a C permit.

Any idea what might happen if we lose our C permits? Would we be forced to sell the property?

NichtsBesonders 04.01.2019 17:53

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 3027390)
We are on the verge of making an offer on a holiday home, something that I (non EU) can only buy because I have a C permit.

Any idea what might happen if we lose our C permits? Would we be forced to sell the property?

Yes, but that was always true I stand corrected, under current law you won't.

aSwissInTheUS 04.01.2019 18:10

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NichtsBesonders (Post 3027393)
Quote:

Any idea what might happen if we lose our C permits? Would we be forced to sell the property?
Yes, but that was always true

Please a link to the actual Swiss law which says this.

If it exists you will find it here: https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi.../national.html

Good luck.

NichtsBesonders 04.01.2019 19:08

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3027398)
Please a link to the actual Swiss law which says this.

If it exists you will find it here: https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi.../national.html

Good luck.

You're right, I was misremembering that the law (BewG) was tightened in this regard in summer 2018, but in reality the government pulled back.
The current law only regulates the necessary permissions to acquire real estate, once you own it, you own it.
My bad.

Danielfb 24.01.2019 16:39

Anyone that got his C permit this year (2019) and wants to share with us?
 
1 Attachment(s)
I was called today to the HR desk and they shown me this link:


https://ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherheit...ation_aig.html


It basically tells that since 1st Jan 2019 you need to speak German as prove of integration. If you fail on this, the picture attached, extracted from the link above, summarizes well all:


Because my German sucks and my B permit expires on June, they asked if I had a plan or the intention to learn German. It took me by surprise and all I could reply was that I don't like 'ultimatums'. But inside I started sweating.


I would like to know how bad this can get with German to renew the work permit. Anyone?

Phil_MCR 24.01.2019 17:01

Re: Anyone that got his C permit this year (2019) and wants to share with us?
 
Mine expires in a few weeks. I already sent off the renewal. Will cross my fingers there are no further requirements.

bowlie 24.01.2019 19:57

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Danielfb. Integration is much more than just speaking the language. Do you know your neighbours? The postie? The shopkeeper?

And integrating is a wonderful way of improving your language skills.

Jaceq 28.01.2019 16:09

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
There is a leaflet in English: https://ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherheit...G_Englisch.pdf


Overall they ask for A2 level for C permit...
Anyway makes me happy that last year I did my B1 :)

smb 01.02.2019 14:25

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
For those, who live in the canton of Zürich.
As I know, the official list of documents, which are required for an extension of B type permit is not updated yet in the canton of Zürich.
And because there is no official list at the moment, nobody asks for any certificate.
We received our extended B type permits (non-EU, extended every year) a few days ago.
When we were applying at our town hall (in the middle of January), I asked if we have to provide any documents proving the level of our German, and they told "no" (actually, they were very surprised by my question).

Istcantabria 01.02.2019 20:46

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Can someone confirm if the language requirements to obtain permit C in Basel are applicable to all EU countries?

I received a message from my company that some countries (something like the main 15 Western Europe countries) are exempted of this requirement. Do you have any link to the regulations? Are you aware of this?

Medea Fleecestealer 01.02.2019 20:58

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Istcantabria (Post 3036810)
Can someone confirm if the language requirements to obtain permit C in Basel are applicable to all EU countries?

I received a message from my company that some countries (something like the main 15 Western Europe countries) are exempted of this requirement. Do you have any link to the regulations? Are you aware of this?

Only the following are exempt due to individual treaties they have with Switzerland.

EU nationalities language exemption: Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

Clocker 01.02.2019 21:09

Re: New language requirements for B/C permit renewal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3036811)
EU nationalities language exemption: Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

Liechtenstein is not an EU nationality. :msnnerd:


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