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  #1  
Old 15.05.2018, 13:34
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Facilitated Naturalisation Interview - London - Swiss Embassy

Hi


My Father is fully Swiss and this side of my family are all living in Switzerland.


I applied for facilitated naturalization and have an upcoming interview at the Swiss Embassy in London - including the test on Politics, Geography, History and Current Affairs.


I have close ties in Switzerland, including references and I visit about 4 times a year. I also have a reference of 'Swiss Abroad' in the UK.


Can anyone please advise on what the interview may involve and the best areas to prepare?


Many thanks!
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Old 15.05.2018, 13:46
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation Interview - London - Swiss Embassy

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Hi


My Father is fully Swiss and this side of my family are all living in Switzerland.


I applied for facilitated naturalization and have an upcoming interview at the Swiss Embassy in London - including the test on Politics, Geography, History and Current Affairs.


I have close ties in Switzerland, including references and I visit about 4 times a year. I also have a reference of 'Swiss Abroad' in the UK.


Can anyone please advise on what the interview may involve and the best areas to prepare?


Many thanks!
If your father is fully Swiss, what do you need facilitaded naturalisation for?
Is he not mentioned on your birth-certificate? Or was he not Swiss when you were born?
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Old 15.05.2018, 14:04
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation Interview - London - Swiss Embassy

Hi curley

Sorry I meant for the 'simplified naturalisation'. My Father is Swiss since his birth. I am 29 years old and I have the UK birth certificate with his name on but only recently was the birth registered in Switzerland and I now also have my Swiss birth certificate.

Although in contact, I did not meet my Father until I was 16 years old. I did meet other members of my family before then, and also my God Mother is Swiss.
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Old 15.05.2018, 15:16
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation Interview - London - Swiss Embassy

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Hi curley

Sorry I meant for the 'simplified naturalisation'. My Father is Swiss since his birth. I am 29 years old and I have the UK birth certificate with his name on but only recently was the birth registered in Switzerland and I now also have my Swiss birth certificate.

Although in contact, I did not meet my Father until I was 16 years old. I did meet other members of my family before then, and also my God Mother is Swiss.
The way I see it, you already ARE Swiss.
As you say, your birth is now registered here as well (my father informed the Swiss authorities right after my birth which made things simpler I guess).
All you need to do now is apply for a passport. Why would you need to do all the tests and examinations?

Keep us tracked, this is interesting.
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Old 15.05.2018, 15:20
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Re: Facilitated Naturalisation Interview - London - Swiss Embassy

Hi

I believe it is more complicated as my birth was not registered in Switzerland until now. Also I think the laws are different if your mother is Swiss compared to if your father is Swiss.

I have submitted documents to the Embassy and now been invited to interview which will include the tests and exams. Fingers crossed!

Are you also half Swiss, half English?

I will keep you updated.
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Old 24.01.2019, 13:20
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Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

Hi

After completing the Swiss Citizenship application process and an interview at the London Embassy in May 2018, I have been informed that my application has been rejected. My first appeal has been rejected and I now have the opportunity to appeal again for CHF 300. Could anyone please advise the process of appealing again, is it assessed by another authority? This is not made clear on the letter.

My father is Swiss and lives in Switzerland, I live in the UK and have an English mother. I have close ties in Switzerland, including references and I visit my Swiss family about 4 times a year. I also have a reference of 'Swiss Abroad' in the UK. My references in Switzerland were also contacted after my interview.

The reason for this being rejected is due to my birth being registered in Switzerland in 2018. I have solicitors letters, DNA evidence and acknowledgement from my father when I was born. The Embassy have known throughout that my birth was only registered in 2018 as they supported this before starting my Citizenship application, therefore I am uncertain why I was not informed from the outset before submitting all documentation, attending interview etc.

If you are able to provide any guidance or support please let me know.

Many thanks,

Oliver
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Old 24.01.2019, 13:49
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

How old are you?

Tom
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Old 24.01.2019, 13:55
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

How old are you?
By the current citizenship law you lose Swiss citizenship by descent from a Swiss parent if you have been born outside Switzerland, have another citizenship and haven't registered with Swiss authorities until you turned 26 (Art 7.1 BüG)
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Old 24.01.2019, 14:32
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

What reason did they give for rejection? I don't think
It is because you registered in 2018, but that you missed the cut off.
What type of application did you file?
Did you read the other threads you posted in?
What makes you think they are wrong and what makes you think they should reconsider after 2 rejections?

You haven't provided enough info.
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Old 24.01.2019, 14:44
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

Look under your previous threads(s) under the EF name borninzurich for the detailed information already provided.
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:18
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

Hi Tom I'm 29.

Oliver
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:21
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

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Look under your previous threads(s) under the EF name borninzurich for the detailed information already provided.
Hi

I will take a look, thanks. I believe the rules around a Swiss mother are different to a Swiss Father.

Oliver
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:41
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

Hi
I8217;m 29 years old. My application was for facilitated naturalization.
My initial application was in December 2017, after I submitted an enquiry to the Swiss Embassy in London about the possibility of Citizenship. I was urged to file my application before the end of 2017 to apply under the current laws, as the laws were changing in 2018. My application was submitted in time. In the meantime, I had to process my birth registration in Switzerland, as it had not been completed at my birth and I was unaware of this.
The Swiss Embassy supported my application throughout and were involved in registering my birth, and then my Citizenship application. All files and documentation were submitted, and I was invited to an interview around May 2018. The interview went well, and I could prove close ties to Switzerland through family and friends, photos of visiting Switzerland, the knowledge test of Switzerland, and all other required documentation, letters of recommendation from Swiss Abroad etc. Following this application my references in Switzerland were then contacted.
I have a close relationship with my family in Switzerland including my father. My mother is British and lives in England.
On the letter I have received to reject my appeal it states the paternity was not officially authenticated until February 27, 2018 and the documents provided are not 8216;official documents8217;. The Swiss Embassy advised the more official documents I provide the better - I have provided letters such as DNA testing, correspondence with solicitors, acknowledgement of fatherhood from my father etc.
On another post I have located (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...alization.html) it states with regards to not registering a birth in Switzerland - 'Actually, in section 2.4.3.3. of the administrative manual on citizenship (see the link to chapter 2 in the link I provided previously), it is noted that the concept of a "reasonable excuse" in this context is interpreted "very generously" and that in fact the Federal Tribunal has established that ignorance of the law constitutes a valid excuse.' - https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/it/home...rgerrecht.html
It may be they are not wrong 8211; however I cannot understand why the Swiss Embassy advised me there is a possibility to apply, as surely this would be known from the outset it is not possible, if this is the case?
Thanks,
Oliver
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Old 24.01.2019, 15:59
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

29 years old. So born 1990 or 1989. Born abroad, not in Switzerland, right?

Born in wedlock, speak your Swiss father was married to your mother?

Then you lost your Swiss citizenship at your 22nd birthday.
(As specified by the law in force 2011-2012)

According the current law facilitated naturalization is the wrong path, reinstatement of citizenship would be correct.

Born out of wedlock? Oops, that is bad, because a Swiss father could only pass the Swiss citizenship to its (please excuse the French) bastard child after Juli 1st 1992.

In this case you could have applied for Swiss citizenship before your 22nd birthday based on Art. 58c of the old law. After your 22nd birthday and before January 1st 2018 when you have lived at least 3 years in Switzerland.
See old SEM Hanbook Section 2.3 https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...ueg-anh3-d.pdf

After January 1st 2018 this is only possible if your father has acknowledgment full paternity (back to date of birth) wither by court order or entry in an appropriate registry while you were still a minor. Art. 51 Abs. 2 https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a51 with Art. 1 Abs 2.https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi.../index.html#a1
plus new SEM Handbook Section 652 https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...g18-kap6-d.pdf

Quote:
I have solicitors letters, DNA evidence and acknowledgement from my father when I was born.
Is this an official court approved acknowledgment?
Who is listed as your father on your UK (or foreign) birth certificate?
Did you submit the UK birth certificate as well?
When was he added as a father to your foreign birth certificate?


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By the current citizenship law you lose Swiss citizenship by descent from a Swiss parent if you have been born outside Switzerland, have another citizenship and haven't registered with Swiss authorities until you turned 26 (Art 7.1 BüG)
No, at the 25th birthday (The end of the X Lebensjahr is at the X. birthday. See also English, or French text which is official https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi.../index.html#a7)


PS: When did you hand in your initial application on or after January 1st 2018 or before?
Edit. I see. Before .

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It may be they are not wrong 8211; however I cannot understand why the Swiss Embassy advised me there is a possibility to apply, as surely this would be known from the outset it is not possible, if this is the case?
Because it depends on the evidence and document you can provide.
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Old 24.01.2019, 16:27
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

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29 years old. So born 1990 or 1989. Born abroad, not in Switzerland, right?

Born in 1989, in the UK

Born in wedlock, speak your Swiss father was married to your mother?

Then you lost your Swiss citizenship at your 22nd birthday.
(As specified by the law in force 2011-2012)

According the current law facilitated naturalization is the wrong path, reinstatement of citizenship would be correct.

Born out of wedlock? Oops, that is bad, because a Swiss father could only pass the Swiss citizenship to its (please excuse the French) bastard child after Juli 1st 1992.

Not married, looks like I was three years too early then!

In this case you could have applied for Swiss citizenship before your 22nd birthday based on Art. 58c of the old law.

Although I was visiting Switzerland frequently, I hadn't thought about applying for Swiss Citizenship at this age

After your 22nd birthday and before January 1st 2018 when you have lived at least 3 years in Switzerland.
My application was prior to the new laws in January 1 2018 as the Swiss Embassy advised I should start the application then because the laws were becoming stricter
See old SEM Hanbook Section 2.3 https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...ueg-anh3-d.pdf

After January 1st 2018 this is only possible if your father has acknowledgment full paternity (back to date of birth) wither by court order or entry in an appropriate registry while you were still a minor.
The letters I have are from the solicitors, DNA testing, letter of acknowledgement from my father etc. however there are no letters from the court as there was a mutual agreement which meant there was no need for court
Art. 51 Abs. 2 https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a51 with Art. 1 Abs 2.https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi.../index.html#a1
plus new SEM Handbook Section 652 https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...g18-kap6-d.pdf


Is this an official court approved acknowledgment?
Who is listed as your father on your UK (or foreign) birth certificate?
Did you submit the UK birth certificate as well?
When was he added as a father to your foreign birth certificate?

It is not from the courts. It is letters between two solicitors.
My Swiss Father is listed on my UK birth certificate, however again not from birth.
I submitted the UK birth certificate as part of my application


No, at the 25th birthday (The end of the X Lebensjahr is at the X. birthday. See also English, or French text which is official https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi.../index.html#a7)


PS: When did you hand in your initial application on or after January 1st 2018 or before?
Edit. I see. Before .


Because it depends on the evidence and document you can provide.
Understood however the embassy asked what documentation I had prior and I was completely honest about this and sent scanned copies by e-mail.

Many thanks for your comprehensive response, it has been really helpful. Now I need to consider whether it is worth to appeal again, however I'm not sure who a second appeal is assessed by.
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Old 24.01.2019, 16:54
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

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Understood however the embassy asked what documentation I had prior and I was completely honest about this and sent scanned copies by e-mail.
It is an initial, informal assessment and they have a limited timeframe and resources to investigate everything. They can only give you a formal yes or no once you have made a formal application they have all documents and evidence. They also rather say you can apply than deny it. Consider the opposite: You are fully eligible but they erroneously said you are not eligible. Some years later you find out you actually were eligible, but you never applied formally, and because of a law change you can no longer apply.

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The letters I have are from the solicitors, DNA testing, letter of acknowledgement from my father etc. however there are no letters from the court as there was a mutual agreement which meant there was no need for court
[...]
It is not from the courts. It is letters between two solicitors.
My Swiss Father is listed on my UK birth certificate, however again not from birth.
I submitted the UK birth certificate as part of my application
Are this letters, acknowledgement, updated birth certificate, etc. from the time when you were still a minor (before 18th birthday).

Do you have a copy of the Statutory declaration of acknowledgement of parentage as required by The Statutory Declarations Act 1835?
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Old 24.01.2019, 17:19
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

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It is an initial, informal assessment and they have a limited timeframe and resources to investigate everything. They can only give you a formal yes or no once you have made a formal application they have all documents and evidence. They also rather say you can apply than deny it. Consider the opposite: You are fully eligible but they erroneously said you are not eligible. Some years later you find out you actually were eligible, but you never applied formally, and because of a law change you can no longer apply.

Your explanation puts this into perspective and fully understand, thanks.

Are this letters, acknowledgement, updated birth certificate, etc. from the time when you were still a minor (before 18th birthday).

Letters between solicitors acknowledging fatherhood, financial agreement etc. were all shortly after my birth, as was the DNA testing with letter to prove this. Birth certificate was in 2018 - this was prompted from my initial enquiry for Swiss Citizenship as I had no reason to check my birth certificates prior.

Do you have a copy of the Statutory declaration of acknowledgement of parentage as required by The Statutory Declarations Act 1835?
I have a copy of this however it was only signed in 2018. To register my birth in Switzerland, my UK birth certificate was required with my Father named on the document. To add my father to my UK birth certificate, the Statutory declaration of acknowledgement of parentage was signed by my father with a lawyer in Luzern. I then received my UK Birth Certificate and registered my birth in Switzerland.

Do you know who would review a second appeal?

Thanks,

Oliver
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Old 24.01.2019, 17:50
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

I do not know who will review the appeal. But here is may layman interpretation of your situation:

According the old law, under which you applied, you would need to have lived for at least three years in Switzerland (at least one of those years just before application) to be eligible (at least that is what the SEM Handbook says *). According to what you have said this is not the case.

According the new law, there is no longer such a requirement, but paternity must have been officially acknowledged when you were still a minor. According what you have said this was done, also in respect with the UK, 2018 which is given your age too late.

*) I did not see in the old law where this residency requirement comes from.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a58c
But here an other point of view why the application can be denied. The old law says that a child of a Swiss father can apply. At time of application (December 2017) your father was not legally your father. Thus, you were not a child of a Swiss father back than and your were not eligible to apply.

In conclusion, neither new nor old law have provisions which would allow you to get Swiss citizenship in your current situation. I do not see how an appeal could be successful. But as said, this is my layman interpretation.

If you want to challenge the decisions you must either be able to prove that the paternity acknowledgement from 2018 is valid retrospectively, or find evidence that it was done earlier, best while you were a minor.
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Old 24.01.2019, 18:55
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

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I do not know who will review the appeal. But here is may layman interpretation of your situation:

According the old law, under which you applied, you would need to have lived for at least three years in Switzerland (at least one of those years just before application) to be eligible (at least that is what the SEM Handbook says *). According to what you have said this is not the case.

According the new law, there is no longer such a requirement, but paternity must have been officially acknowledged when you were still a minor. According what you have said this was done, also in respect with the UK, 2018 which is given your age too late.

*) I did not see in the old law where this residency requirement comes from.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a58c
But here an other point of view why the application can be denied. The old law says that a child of a Swiss father can apply. At time of application (December 2017) your father was not legally your father. Thus, you were not a child of a Swiss father back than and your were not eligible to apply.

In conclusion, neither new nor old law have provisions which would allow you to get Swiss citizenship in your current situation. I do not see how an appeal could be successful. But as said, this is my layman interpretation.

If you want to challenge the decisions you must either be able to prove that the paternity acknowledgement from 2018 is valid retrospectively, or find evidence that it was done earlier, best while you were a minor.
Are you aware of any definitions around what is classed as an 'official certification/document' for paternity acknowledgement?

In the e-mail from the Swiss Embassy to confirm my birth was registered in Switzerland they stated 'I would also advise you to have the letter regarding the DNA testing and the one from the lawyer translated in German. The more official documents you can submit proving that your father acknowledged the paternity before your majority the better'

In the letter to reject my appeal it states 'The paternity was not officially authenticated until February 27, 2018 (paternity tests, financial support from your father, etc. are not official certifications)

From speaking with the Embassy I believe they thought the letters I have may be sufficient in this case (original letters from 1989 my year of birth to acknowledge fatherhood, DNA testing letters, correspondence between lawyers etc). One letter from a solicitor also notes that they have been instructed on behalf of a firm in Zurich to act on his behalf.


Thanks,

Oliver
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Old 24.01.2019, 19:15
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Re: Citizenship application rejected - Swiss Father

The SEM Handbook (it is only a guideline, which might be challenged in court, but it is the best we have how they will handle it) specifies:
Quote:
the relationship of ancestry between the child and the Swiss father was established by a court decision or by entry in a register before the person wishing to be naturalized came of age on the basis of an approved type of recognition, with retroactive effect to the date of birth of the child;
For sure it is an official court order. But also an entry into any national birth registry. "Approved type of recognition" most likely pertains to a recognition according UK or Swiss law. Under Swiss law it must be done at a Swiss civil registry office https://www.ch.ch/en/how-acknowlede-paternity/

If any of the previous correspondences from 1989 fulfill the requirement of a statutory declaration of acknowledgement of parentage as required by The Statutory Declarations Act 1835 is open to question.

I have no idea and clue about UK/English/Welsh/Scottish etc. law (Henceforth referred as UK law). It is enough that I know that next to UK there is also English/Welsh/Scottish etc. law. Also the question remains why the birth registry was not updated before 2018. Maybe because the letters from 1989 did not fulfill the required formalities? Also you will have to check if according UK law the statutory declaration is enough to establish paternity or if it must be entered into the birth register.
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