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  #21  
Old 07.02.2019, 11:08
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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To be fair, I did read the "she agree to it all" comment (for what it's worth) BUT, still sucks the joy out of the whole thing, dontchathink?

The top 5 "main reasons" for marriage... *shudder*
As I said there is zero romance in the OP, but the fact is that in the cold light of day divorce within less than 10 years is a harsh reality. While it's fine wanting/expecting all of the notions of romance, the end result in case of a divorce where you plan for the worst case is probably a lot less messy and heartbreaking if you get your affairs (no pun intended) in order first (though perhaps not as brutally as the OP is doing).

The average divorce rate nowadays is over 50% and those are terrible odds for what will be a live-changing event no matter which way you look at it.

Last edited by Chuff; 07.02.2019 at 17:18.
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  #22  
Old 07.02.2019, 11:38
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Regarding prenuptial agreements and marriage is it possible if woman earn 10.000chf/month and man earn 20.000chf/month. To not split it 50/50 after eg. 30years marriage. You see both earn more than enough for good living condition but the woman would get 5.000 on top without necessarily deserving it. (i know i sounds harsh but high paying jobs are usually not as fun a normal paying jobs, so definitely not worth the extra effort if most of it is going out the window)
It's been answered before but perhaps a bit more beef on the bone is helpful.

The default arrangement in a Swiss marriage is called "Errungenschaftsbeteiligung", that is, everything acquired during the marriage is split, with inheritance being the exception.

The other option is called "Gütertrennung", that is, income and wealth remain separated even though you share bed and dinnertable. As a consequence nothing gets distributed or split between the two of you in case of divorce. In my experience many couples, including most who opted for Errungenschaftsbeteiligung, practice this to some extent (each has their own money, often called as pocket money even though the amounts can be quite substantial).

Why so many on here see the latter as reason to doubt your fitness for marriage isn't really evident, they remind me of missionars who accept only one choice as right. They made theirs just as you two will make yours, best of luck all!

PS
The decision can be changed during the marriage, back and forth and back, but of course it requires consent by both.

PPS
This seems likely to affect what the surviving spouse inherits, or can inherit, if either dies. With shared wealth, arrangements exist that allow the surviving spouse to use all wealth until their death. With split wealth however that may not be possible, and with Switzerland's mandatory spliting of the inheritance the surviving spouse may get rather little. You may want to ask the notary.

Last edited by Urs Max; 07.02.2019 at 11:54.
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  #23  
Old 07.02.2019, 14:13
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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You see both earn more than enough for good living condition but the woman would get 5.000 on top without necessarily deserving it. (i know i sounds harsh but high paying jobs are usually not as fun a normal paying jobs, so definitely not worth the extra effort if most of it is going out the window)
Serious qu: why wouldn't she deserve the extra money? Should she not be compensated for, literally, her labouring? I know you don't need much education and training to have a child and obviously pushing a small human out of your body is unskilled labour and isn't as fun as a super duper job behind a desk, but still. It takes time you see and time doing that is time she can't spend earning her share of the CHFs.

For research purposes, please elaborate about what these dreary high paying jobs are. Plus the fun "normal" ones. My mind is a whirl at the possibilities.

Last edited by RufusB; 07.02.2019 at 14:48.
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  #24  
Old 07.02.2019, 14:16
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

I know of a church in Vegas that dispenses the sort of marriage you might be interested in.
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  #25  
Old 07.02.2019, 14:35
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

What is the biggest part of this I can't understand:

A divorce is not like this, you can't predict the future. No paper now will ensure a good divorce, 50/50, money etc.

Life changes

So it's all based on trust and hoping for the best, even with legal papers!
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  #26  
Old 07.02.2019, 14:46
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

From all the reasons given, marriage has only a real impact on #2. 5 instead of 10 years residency. #3 is optional with marriage and if OPs country of citizenship offers a simple name change such as the UK marriage is not needed for a single family name.
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  #27  
Old 07.02.2019, 14:59
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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From all the reasons given, marriage has only a real impact on #2. 5 instead of 10 years residency. #3 is optional with marriage and if OPs country of citizenship offers a simple name change such as the UK marriage is not needed for a single family name.
But the name change form is only valid in some countries. (ex husband did this and it wasn't globally accepted)
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  #28  
Old 07.02.2019, 15:03
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

Marriage has nothing to do with the kids getting Swiss citizenship.

If at least on parent is Swiss, they are Swiss.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 07.02.2019, 17:43
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Hi All

I'm considering to Marry in Switzerland to a Swiss before having 2-3 kids.

Foreword:
Since divorce rates statistically are high i would like to have a solid plan for what we do incase divorce would happen to keep damage/frustration to a minimum.

Marriage and kids seems to high disadvantageous to men incase your partner wants to take advantage. Statistically it happens fairly often when kids gets older. I would like to make my own contract to balance this out to same conditions.

I would like to keep governments involvement in my economy to a minimum since there is many horror stories out there if outrageous alimonies, huge lawyer fees. Having good agreement with my partner seems like a much more responsible solution instead. We are both very independent and both earn well so no one relying on the other financially.

The Questions:
Main reason for marriage is #1 to grant kids Swiss Citizenship, #2 Myself Swiss Citizenship, #3 Connect family names, #4 Grant 50/50 access to kids, #5 Insure both parties minimum financial contribution. (all in all, insuring fair conditions for all and no option for one party to take financial advantage of the other)

The question is. Is it really needed to get married to do these 5 things? Could you recommend a solution?

Alternative
I would prefer to do it all by custom contract and throw a symbolic wedding without the government if possible.
I would like to write simplified marriage laws in contract myself so me and my partner have full control to what we signup for and not under the rules of a changing law we might not agree with.

Financial:
I would like to write contract with partner on a minimum amount of money we each will put aside a month per kids til they are 18. (probably around 1000chf each per kid). No other financial obligations. We will write a fair testament incase we should die. If the female has reduced earning while raising child the reduction will be payed by the male, but not 50/50 for life. Prefer to avoid socialistic mindset with share all since separate economy will create bigger incentive to maintain career progression and best for both parties.

Right to spend time:
Make an agreement we both have 50/50 right to see kids in any case.

It's too overwhelming all the things you sign up for with marriage and most conditions seems to be disadvantages you can write better in your own contracts.

At the end of the day if things does not work out, forcing it will not make it better. I believe people need to have inner motivation to keep relations healthy, no contract can do this for you.

And they said romance was dead.
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  #30  
Old 07.02.2019, 17:50
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Who is the lucky girl?
She'd be better off with a dog in my humble opinion!
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  #31  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:15
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

I think it's called a platonic marriage, i suggest you go and ask a catholic priest for a bit of guidance...........there again, maybe the priest has a few obligations tucked away under his cassock.....
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  #32  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:20
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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I think it's called a platonic marriage
Then there wouldn't be any kids.
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  #33  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:23
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Then there wouldn't be any kids.
With a combined income of 30K they surely can pay to achieve kids without sex.
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  #34  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:24
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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With a combined income of 30K they surely can pay to achieve kids without sex.


Robots?
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  #35  
Old 07.02.2019, 18:58
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Robots?
Cute little ones.. and you could switch them off when they get too loud.

Now, why didn't I think of that.
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  #36  
Old 07.02.2019, 19:09
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

For tax reasons it is finacially better to stay single

The tax authorities have been saying that they will fix this, but no sign of that yet.

There are lots of other reasons to get married (I did) but income taxes is not one of them.
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  #37  
Old 07.02.2019, 20:12
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

Entering into a marriage with an exit strategy and divorce planning foremost in mind is a fundamentally flawed process. Whatever good you think may come of it is merely an illusion. No matter how you rationalize it, the three, five, or ten years or whatever time you waste with this half-in half-out mentality can never be returned to you.

Do yourself and your potential bride a kindness and just forget the whole thing.
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  #38  
Old 07.02.2019, 21:00
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Entering into a marriage with an exit strategy and divorce planning foremost in mind is a fundamentally flawed process. Whatever good you think may come of it is merely an illusion. No matter how you rationalize it, the three, five, or ten years or whatever time you waste with this half-in half-out mentality can never be returned to you.

Do yourself and your potential bride a kindness and just forget the whole thing.
He may never get the years back but if anything at least he can minimize the potential financial (if not the emotional) fallout.

Plenty of people with assets to protect make pre-nups, and show me some statistics that say their marriage is more likely to fail than someone who doesn't.
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  #39  
Old 07.02.2019, 21:07
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

I know many people for whom the separation of assets has worked out well.

Tom
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Old 07.02.2019, 21:10
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Re: Marriage in Switzerland without any obligations possible?

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Regarding prenuptial agreements and marriage is it possible if woman earn 10.000chf/month and man earn 20.000chf/month. To not split it 50/50 after eg. 30years marriage. You see both earn more than enough for good living condition but the woman would get 5.000 on top without necessarily deserving it. (i know i sounds harsh but high paying jobs are usually not as fun a normal paying jobs, so definitely not worth the extra effort if most of it is going out the window)
Wow. I can't figure what sort of marriage arrangements are you having in mind. I would be surprised if your soon to be wife will agree with this!

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Entering into a marriage with an exit strategy and divorce planning foremost in mind is a fundamentally flawed process. Whatever good you think may come of it is merely an illusion. No matter how you rationalize it, the three, five, or ten years or whatever time you waste with this half-in half-out mentality can never be returned to you.

Do yourself and your potential bride a kindness and just forget the whole thing.
Imagine how would be like to have such a partner. Cute....
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