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Old 14.06.2019, 10:57
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EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

Has any one had more than 2 B permits? (ie more than 10 years in CH on a B)

I am fast coming up to this milestone (and wondering best permit approach)
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Old 14.06.2019, 11:17
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Has any one had more than 2 B permits? (ie more than 10 years in CH on a B)

I am fast coming up to this milestone (and wondering best permit approach)
In case you are planning to apply for Citizenship in near future, C is a pre-requisite.

Also with new rules, if someone is not integrated, C can be downgraded to B (B to an L and eventually a flight back home)

In a nutshell, keep moving forward and aim for a C.
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Old 14.06.2019, 12:09
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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In case you are planning to apply for Citizenship in near future, C is a pre-requisite.

Also with new rules, if someone is not integrated, C can be downgraded to B (B to an L and eventually a flight back home)

In a nutshell, keep moving forward and aim for a C.
Flight back home not true for EU nationals who benefit from FMOP. EU worst case scenario as long as employed is perpetual B (or L if contract less than a year)
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Old 14.06.2019, 12:14
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Flight back home not true for EU nationals who benefit from FMOP. EU worst case scenario as long as employed is perpetual B (or L if contract less than a year)
That would make no sense to be honest. Effectively that would mean that there is no language requirement for B for working Europeans.
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Old 14.06.2019, 12:40
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Flight back home not true for EU nationals who benefit from FMOP. EU worst case scenario as long as employed is perpetual B (or L if contract less than a year)
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That would make no sense to be honest. Effectively that would mean that there is no language requirement for B for working Europeans.
Going to be interesting to see which side of this coin wins when it eventually happens.
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Old 14.06.2019, 12:43
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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That would make no sense to be honest. Effectively that would mean that there is no language requirement for B for working Europeans.
No, the language requirements for certain European countries is for transforming from B into C (given FMOP no longer covers C permits but it governed by the new foreigners and integration Swiss national law)

Europeans obtaining / renewing B or L is still governed by FMOP bilateral and as such no supplementary conditions other than being employed / self-employed or being self sufficient with adequate health insurance coverage can be imposed
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Old 14.06.2019, 13:15
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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No, the language requirements for certain European countries is for transforming from B into C (given FMOP no longer covers C permits but it governed by the new foreigners and integration Swiss national law)

Europeans obtaining / renewing B or L is still governed by FMOP bilateral and as such no supplementary conditions other than being employed / self-employed or being self sufficient with adequate health insurance coverage can be imposed
Those agreements are not for all of the EU they are only with some countries.

Being EU does not make it so that you do not have to meet the language requirements, being Dutch or German for example does and this is based on individual agreements (also no language requirements to obtain C for those countries.), being EU has nothing to do with it.

Therefor:
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"EU worst case scenario as long as employed is perpetual B (or L if contract less than a year)"
Is wrong and in contradiction with the laws.
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  #8  
Old 14.06.2019, 14:20
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Those agreements are not for all of the EU they are only with some countries.
Yes that’s why I said certain European countries

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Being EU does not make it so that you do not have to meet the language requirements, being Dutch or German for example does and this is based on individual agreements (also no language requirements to obtain C for those countries.), being EU has nothing to do with it.
I will try again one last time.

B / L permit issuance and renewal for EU/EFTA nationals – FMOP bilateral applies, no other conditions than: gainfully employed / self-employed or sufficient funding to sustain one’s self including adequate health insurance apply. No language or any other requirements can be asked.

B / L permit issuance / renewal for third countries: New Swiss foreigners and integration law applies: integration criteria (of which language requirements is one) apply for renewal and downgrade of permits possible

C permit issuance and renewal for EU/EFTA nationals and third countries alike - New Swiss foreigners and integration law applies: integration criteria (of which language requirements is one) apply for renewal and downgrade of permits possible. Language requirements not applicable to citizens of: Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain given agreements in place.

So back to my point: as an EU, the maximum downgrade possible is to B or L permit (depending on length of contract) assuming gainfully employed / self sufficient as protected by FMOP bilateral.
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:32
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

Thanks for all the info, indeed I doubt I will get a C unless I produce a costly language certificate (even if they address me by my surname in the local bakery).

So.. with a third B permit, will I be a EF record breaker!?
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:33
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Yes that’s why I said certain European countries



I will try again one last time.

B / L permit issuance and renewal for EU/EFTA nationals – FMOP bilateral applies, no other conditions than: gainfully employed / self-employed or sufficient funding to sustain one’s self including adequate health insurance apply. No language or any other requirements can be asked.

B / L permit issuance / renewal for third countries: New Swiss foreigners and integration law applies: integration criteria (of which language requirements is one) apply for renewal and downgrade of permits possible

C permit issuance and renewal for EU/EFTA nationals and third countries alike - New Swiss foreigners and integration law applies: integration criteria (of which language requirements is one) apply for renewal and downgrade of permits possible. Language requirements not applicable to citizens of: Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain given agreements in place.

So back to my point: as an EU, the maximum downgrade possible is to B or L permit (depending on length of contract) assuming gainfully employed / self sufficient as protected by FMOP bilateral.
Integration doesn't only mean language proficiency. How would you read your own point highlighted above - considering a hypothetical employed EU speaking perfect German based in Zurich and collecting driving tickets like crazy with entry in Criminal Register and also a notorious defaulter in paying Bills (Betriebung)
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:38
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

In that case he might have a hard time getting a C depending on the canton but as long as he is gainfully employed / self-employed or is self sufficient he has the right to a B or L as an EU
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:43
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Thanks for all the info, indeed I doubt I will get a C unless I produce a costly language certificate (even if they address me by my surname in the local bakery).

So.. with a third B permit, will I be a EF record breaker!?
Don't know any personal cases but I am pretty sure you are not a record breaker.

However, what I am sure about is and I am not really joking here , for statistical purpose they would create an entry against your name under cases that were eligible for a C due to length of stay but were not granted due to lack of integration (language proficiency).
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:52
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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In that case he might have a hard time getting a C depending on the canton but as long as he is gainfully employed / self-employed or is self sufficient he has the right to a B or L as an EU
..and what if (s)he already had a C before snapping ?
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:57
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

OP’s profile states English as native language. If you are Irish I wouldn’t worry. If you are UK I would be weary of Brexit. In case of a hard Brexit, the UK would default to being a third country in the eyes of FMOP bilateral being applied in Switzerland – in this case a “flight back home” due to lack of integration is very much on the table. If you are UK and have Irish ancestry I would get Irish nationality asap
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Old 14.06.2019, 14:58
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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..and what if (s)he already had a C before snapping ?
Then there’s a chance the C would default to an EU/EFTA B on renewal date up to the canton’s discretion but not more
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Old 14.06.2019, 16:12
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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Then there’s a chance the C would default to an EU/EFTA B on renewal date up to the canton’s discretion but not more

See page 6 in below link. On a lighter note , they have actually used the photo of permits issued to EU ;-)

https://ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherheit...G_Englisch.pdf
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Old 14.06.2019, 16:33
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

I would rather rely on the law and not a picture in an informative brochure but that’s just me
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Old 14.06.2019, 17:02
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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I would rather rely on the law and not a picture in an informative brochure but that’s just me
Who do you think has issued this brochure ?
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Old 14.06.2019, 17:04
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

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I would rather rely on the law and not a picture in an informative brochure but that’s just me
The brochure is from the Zurich Migrationsamt, not some random website. The topic of the new integration rules was discussed in another thread:
https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

And from that thread, here's a link to the vote. The bill looks to have passed both houses in 2016, but it's not clear when it was due to take effect. I get the impression it was 1 January of this year.
https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetr...airId=20130030

Scroll down to Schlussabstimmungstext to see the final version that was passed.

Unfortunately the links in that other thread are broken so it might require some digging to find the current law.

Edit to add: I haven't read it, so I don't know if the law changed to say integration was a requirement for all, even EU citizens
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Old 14.06.2019, 18:02
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Re: EU nationals - any experiences of multiple B permit?

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi.../index.html#a2


Linking in English for everyone’s benefit

Scope of application

Article 2 paragraph 2

For citizens of member states of the European Community (EC), their family members, and employees posted to Switzerland by employers resident or with their registered office in these states, this Act applies only to the extent that the Agreement of 21 June 19991 between the Swiss Confederation on the one hand and the European Community and their Member States on the other hand on Freedom of Movement does not contain any different provisions or that this Act provides for more advantageous provisions.

Many thanks
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