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Old 21.06.2019, 14:31
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B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrative

Hi,

I obtained a 5y B-permit(EU) with title sans activitee lucrative in Geneva. The permit allows me to live and work everywhere in Switzerland. A couple of months later I took up work in Vaud, albeit only with a 1y renewable contract. Currently I am commuting between the cantons.

I am considering now to relocate to Vaud, but found the following remark on the cantonal website regarding arrival from another canton:

"Si prise d'emploi simultanée à la demande alors que le but du séjour initial n'était pas lié à la prise d'une activité lucrative :
Formulaire SPOP «Demande d'un titre de séjour UE/AELE pour l'exercice d'une activité de plus de trois mois dans le Canton de Vaud» et annexes (dot, 88 Ko) (DOT, 96 Ko), à défaut copie d'un contrat de travail ou d'une lettre d'engagement."

Does this mean that I would need to reapply for a permit under cantonal change ? ( as my original title was sans activite lucrative ? )

Is there the danger that Vaud will not honour my 5y B-permit, but instead downgrade me to an L-permit, because of the short-term contract ?

Thanks for your help!
Alp
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Old 21.06.2019, 14:41
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

Sans activite means NOT allowed to work, doesn't it? So how is it you're working?
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Old 21.06.2019, 14:46
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

The title is "sans activite lucrative". However, the permit allows living and working all over Switzerland (it is explicitly stated in the small print). I also got a bit confused about that and explicitly confirmed with Geneva that I can do whatever I want work related without prior approval.
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Old 21.06.2019, 15:02
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Sans activite means NOT allowed to work, doesn't it? So how is it you're working?
It just means at the time his B was issued he was not in gainful employment, not that he isn’t allowed to work
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Old 21.06.2019, 15:04
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Hi,

I obtained a 5y B-permit(EU) with title sans activitee lucrative in Geneva. The permit allows me to live and work everywhere in Switzerland. A couple of months later I took up work in Vaud, albeit only with a 1y renewable contract. Currently I am commuting between the cantons.

I am considering now to relocate to Vaud, but found the following remark on the cantonal website regarding arrival from another canton:

"Si prise d'emploi simultanée à la demande alors que le but du séjour initial n'était pas lié à la prise d'une activité lucrative :
Formulaire SPOP «Demande d'un titre de séjour UE/AELE pour l'exercice d'une activité de plus de trois mois dans le Canton de Vaud» et annexes (dot, 88 Ko) (DOT, 96 Ko), à défaut copie d'un contrat de travail ou d'une lettre d'engagement."

Does this mean that I would need to reapply for a permit under cantonal change ? ( as my original title was sans activite lucrative ? )

Is there the danger that Vaud will not honour my 5y B-permit, but instead downgrade me to an L-permit, because of the short-term contract ?

Thanks for your help!
Alp
Change of cantons requires a change of permit yes. If your contract is 365 days or more then you get 5 year B. If less than 365 days they would issue an L.

How long is the contract? 12 months exactly?
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Old 21.06.2019, 15:20
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Change of cantons requires a change of permit yes. If your contract is 365 days or more then you get 5 year B. If less than 365 days they would issue an L.

How long is the contract? 12 months exactly?
yes, exactly 12m
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Old 21.06.2019, 15:25
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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yes, exactly 12m
Ok then you will get a 5 year B issued in Vaud with your new Vaud address
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Old 22.06.2019, 08:59
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Ok then you will get a 5 year B issued in Vaud with your new Vaud address
Does it matter that I am already half into the contract ? (only ~6m left)
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Old 22.06.2019, 09:10
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Does it matter that I am already half into the contract ? (only ~6m left)
Yes, most likely an L then
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Old 22.06.2019, 11:11
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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It just means at the time his B was issued he was not in gainful employment, not that he isn’t allowed to work
I’m a bit confused. After moving here 8 years ago I got B permit sans activities lucrative. I started to work (we have a fast food restaurant in Lausanne, I’m co owner, so actually was working for myself). I had a full time work contract . One day we had a control, they checked all papes, permits etc for all workers including me and they said that I cannot work on my permit because of this sans activities lucrative writing. Had to pay 400ch fine, came on employer name, workplace name.
To legally work I had to apply for new permit avec activities lucrative.

I should add that my kids got B permit avec activities lucrative.
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Old 22.06.2019, 11:55
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

Yes you got fined because you didn’t change your status correctly from not in gainful employment to self employed
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Old 22.06.2019, 12:15
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Yes you got fined because you didn’t change your status correctly from not in gainful employment to self employed
Now my confusion is back:

* I think my employer notified at least the canton of Vaud at the original start date of the contract. Is there still the danger for downgrade to L under changing domicile of cantons, since technically the employer might have gotten the permission for me at the original start date ?

* Was I supposed to obtain a new permit in Geneva after taking up work ? (Whatever it is worth, I called them after obtaining the permit and they said I don't need to notify if I start working)
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Old 22.06.2019, 12:15
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Yes you got fined because you didn’t change your status correctly from not in gainful employment to self employed
No, you are not right. It is not me as a worker who got fine. My employer got a fine, means restaurant. They didn’t fine me for working without working permit, they fined employer for employing person without valid permission to work.
It is definitely not about self employed status
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Old 22.06.2019, 12:26
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

In any case, you weren't working legally.

Tom
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Old 22.06.2019, 12:30
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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In any case, you weren't working legally.

Tom
So why this employment control office said that I cannot work with permit B sans activities lucrative?
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Old 22.06.2019, 12:44
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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So why this employment control office said that I cannot work with permit B sans activities lucrative?
The permit doesn’t forbid you, all you had to do was notify the migration office you were employed and they would have modified your status and nobody would have gotten fined
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Old 22.06.2019, 12:52
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Now my confusion is back:

* I think my employer notified at least the canton of Vaud at the original start date of the contract. Is there still the danger for downgrade to L under changing domicile of cantons, since technically the employer might have gotten the permission for me at the original start date ?
Ultimately Vaud will decide what you finally get which will be what corresponds to your situation. You don’t need permission to work as en EU but you do need to notify if you are working/self employed/not in gainful employment/studying so your status is reflected appropriately.

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* Was I supposed to obtain a new permit in Geneva after taking up work ? (Whatever it is worth, I called them after obtaining the permit and they said I don't need to notify if I start working)
Any change of status should have been notified
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Old 22.06.2019, 13:03
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Ultimately Vaud will decide what you finally get which will be what corresponds to your situation.
Of course, but it would be good to have an indication what will be the likely outcome so that I can plan accordingly (for example waiting with relocation until I have a new contract)
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Old 22.06.2019, 14:27
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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Of course, but it would be good to have an indication what will be the likely outcome so that I can plan accordingly (for example waiting with relocation until I have a new contract)
You can plan. Contract < 12 months = L, contract > 12 months/unlimited = B

As long as you are from the EU
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Old 22.06.2019, 14:33
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Re: B-permit(EU) sans activite lucrative canton change and change to activite lucrati

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You can plan. Contract > 12 months = L, contract > 12 months/unlimited = B

As long as you are from the EU
I think you mean : contract < 12 months = L, contract > 12 months = B.
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