I made the move here without really knowing what my long-term plans would be. I'm 33 but unmarried, so while I'm currently flexible, I am at the point where some stability would be nice. I assume it should be possible for me to stay long-term if I am motivated to do so, but I have some basic questions about how to make that work.

My work has (conservatively) offered 2 yrs of funding, but for some reason they said they had to do it as two 1-year contracts. So I'm on a tied (to the employter) L permit (non-EU). It's possible/probable though that if I wanted to I could continue beyond the 2 yrs, perhaps permanently, in the same exact job or at least with the same organization.

I have a few questions about the L; I've looked around and found kind of conflicting information-- I'm not sure if it has changed over the years or what.

1. On the tied-L, can I look for other jobs here? Are my chances of getting a new permit with the new job any better given that I am already here etc?

2. I've seen things about needing to "leave the country" in between. If I found another job that was willing to apply for a permit, could I have that process take place while still employed and on my current permit? So the in-between permit time would effectively be zero, and I could simply stay?

3. Just a general question about the above two questions-- how do you deal with not being to negotiate with your employer since they know that you can't easily find another job without leaving the country? Or is it in fact easier than I am making it out to be? (my employer is not the type to exploit this, but I still don't like being in a comparatively weak position, so my inclination is to stay on the fence about staying in the country, although I'd prefer to not have to feel that way)

4. For the second 1 yr period of the 2 yrs I mentioned, would I automatically get a B? Or would it be another L, and I would only reach B after 2 yrs here?

5. Can I buy property on an L? I believe the answer is no. On a B, then, I believe I can buy property as long as it were my primary residence?

6. In general can anyone advise on how practical it is to stay and not have to unexpectedly move back? I'm experienced in my field and usually am not hard-pressed to find work, but the prospect of getting booted out of the country makes it difficult for me to think about attempting to make a life here. Maybe it just comes with the territory. Stories from anyone who has been through this would be appreciated.

1 - 2. Not really, since that gap period which I think is a minimum of a year comes into force. Nor are you allowed to change jobs on an L permit.

3. I guess that depends on how willing or not your employer may be to trying to renew your permit.

4. No, L permit would continue into the second year unless your employer applies for a change. And there's no guarantee you'd get a B even after two years. It's all down to the type of job and permit quotas. If you do manage to get a B permit, it's most likely to still be tied to your employer and you'd have to ask permission to change jobs.

5. No you can't. With a B you could, but it has to be your main residence. Bear in mind though, that as an American (I assume) you'll find it next to impossible to get a mortgage here due to the US's FATCA law. Also most Swiss don't buy, they rent. Mortgages are never paid off here either.

6. Just depends on your skills and what you have to offer Switzerland. The non-EU hiring criteria is here.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

1) You can look, and even be hired, but they would have to get you a permit if hired.

Tom

Okay that's kinda what I was wondering. Maybe I should apply around and just try to get a feel for how easy it would be to get something else if the need arose.

Still unclear though if it would incur a waiting period. If the new employer pursued a new L permit (since my current one is tied to my current employer) would that still mean a gap of a year? Would it be any different with a B?

Thanks for the detailed response. I searched the forums and read some old threads on FATCA. Sounds like you all have been suffering a great deal over it for a long time.

I guess I was aware of the renting vs buying thing, I just always forget how different it is here. I'd kinda like to live in the country in the long-term. The main thing would just being able to settle down somewhere longer and not be moving every year or two. Which, as I understand, generally that is possible here, to rent one place as your family/permanent home, without too much stress over somehow getting booted out.

Well, like everything else it depends on the actual circumstances, but here's a google translate of the relevant law on changing jobs and renewing L permits.

"4.5.1 Job change (Article 55 OASA)

A change of job is possible for major reasons. If the change of employment is requested because it can not be reasonably required to continue the employment relationship, it is to be plausible that this state of affairs is not due to the employee's behavior. In particular, the authorities will ensure that foreigners admitted to Switzerland for a specific purpose do not change their activity shortly thereafter without any major reason. A change of employment is considered to be under the control of another employer, of law or of fact. In the case of renting services in particular, the change of tenant company must be considered as a change of employment (see section 4.8.4 concerning temporary work in the context of the rental of services). A change of employment is allowed only if it occurs within the same branch and the same profession."

"4.5.2.2 Renewal (OASA Article 56)

"Renewal" means the repeated award (two or more times) of an authorization of the same type attributable each time to a quota. Unlike the case of the extension, this is a new stay that is not consecutive to the first. Requests for renewal of short-term authorizations must be examined primarily in relation to the purpose of the stay. The prescribed interruption of one year is intended to prohibit any possibility of substituting a series of short-term authorizations for a residence permit (conclusion of successive employment contracts). Short-term authorizations according to art. 19, para. 1, OASA can in principle be renewed after a break of one year. Exceptionally, it may be less strict for activities repeated each year, when the presence of a foreigner proves indispensable for two or three years in a row at specific periods (eg revisers, professors at foreign institutions). higher education, sportsmen or circus employees). In any case, an interruption of several months between two of these authorizations of stay is required. In order to avoid hidden long-term stays, an interruption of at least one year is required after an uninterrupted short stay of 24 months in total (see diagram under chapter 4.8.10)"

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...aug-kap4-f.pdf

Also bear in mind that as an American you will have continuing US tax filing obligations no matter where you live in the world. US taxation is based on citizenship, not residency. Start your research on that here:

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/inte...-living-abroad

Plus you would need to sign a W-9 form to open a bank account here to allow the bank to send the details on to the IRS. And any foreign, i.e. outside of the US, accounts must be reported on an FBAR form if the aggregate amount comes to more than $10,000 at any time of the year.

Okay that's great. I'm not looking to job hop, but if things really went south somehow I would just like to have some recourse. I would definitely stay in the same field and all that.

Re: US taxation I did research before I came and thought for sure I would be OK because of "Foreign Earned Income Exclusion." (there are limits on how much salary is excluded but they are reasonably generous) But now I see here:
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/inte...n-requirements

... "for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year" / "physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months"

So I guess this will only apply to me in 2020, but not this year because I came in March. Kinda weird because if I waited til April to file taxes, technically I would have been living for a solid 12 months (I came here in March of this year). But probably that is meaningless with respect to the 2019 tax year, for which I'll only have lived here 9 out of the 12 months.

Re: FBAR, I've already exceded that amount in my PostFinance account. I don't even remember if they had me sign a W-9 but I guess they would have had to. I'll look into it but it almost seems like something that the bank would be responsible for, not necessarily myself?

Nope, your responsibility.

As roegner said it's your responsibility to file FBAR's. Yes, I suppose a bank could do them, but if you have multiple accounts in different places then it's simply easier for you to be responsible for filing them. Besides you're the person the IRS is interested in and you they will penalise for not filing, not the banks. Also they're filed electronically these days.

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

Regarding taxation and the FEIE, please note there are two ways of qualifying - - bona fide resident test and physical presence test, you've only cited the latter. Don't know your whole situation but you'd likely qualify under the bona-fide residence test for the part of the tax year in question. You can read more on IRS pages or better yet read instructions for irs form 2555.

Okay excellent, I am going to have to review this in more detail but from a quick look, it seems like I will likely qualify as bona fide resident as long as I end up staying for all of 2020 also. What I did was:

Run through this magical wizard on the IRS site. Some of the questions are honestly still kind of confusing:
https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/can-i-e...oreign-country

I had to do it for 2018 because they don't have an option yet for 2019. Funny, the result it spit out sounds utterly contradictory:
I think this is because the way I would be bona fide resident is through an "extension". The wizard asked this question which makes it a little more evident:
Probably the best evidence though is this "Publication 54" from IRS which seems to be the bible for taxes on US citizens abroad:
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p54...blink100047427
Like I'll said I'll have to review more closely at some point. I was just concerned though that they wouldn't count the partial year. It sounds like as long as you stay long enough that it works out in the end so that it covers the entirety of your residence abroad. This actually is interesting because it gives me some additional financial incentive to stay for all of 2020, if I understand correctly. Not that I am necessarily on the edge of picking up and leaving but it's nice to know the cost/benefit associated with every possible move.

OK so I will keep calling out this MYTH!! I'm American - I have a Mortgage!! Where does this OLD antiquated myth still keep coming up.


With UBS. Just renewed another tranch no issues what so ever. I know other Americans with Mortgages too..they got with thier B (5 year B). One other I know, like me, have transitioned to C.


The other comments are correct - most Swiss don't buy - Mortgages are not paid off either but this IS a different system!

To add, better pickup a local national language. Will look better on both the CV and to the authorities as proof of some level of profiency is required now.

Hm, I don't quite understand that since I did nothing of the sort to get my current L-permit. I told my employer that I had some german training but no certificate or formal testing. English is the official language in the office, so maybe it is different in that case?

Well, the rules on getting and keeping all types of Swiss permits changed recently and being integrated into Swiss life is a requirement now - which means learning a Swiss language among other things.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/good-be...ation/44325176

If you don't you could find any B permit revoked which would mean you'd have to leave the country.

Also bear in mind for the future that if you do marry your spouse is going to have to provide evidence of language proficiency as well before you'd be granted a family reunification permit.

The language rules were only tightened for incoming dependents (but see below). There's still no language requirement whatsoever for the main permit holders (i.e. the persons who got through the non-EU hiring hoops and got a residence permit to work in CH). Permit-wise the only downside will be the inability to get a C permit (and by extension, citizenship) until one learns the cantonal language.

Yes I know that the language requirement is portrayed as universal in popular sources, e.g. this broschure from the Zurich Migrationsamt. It's a scare tactic.
It's not there if you actually read the law (except for dependents and also main permit holders for some very specific professions, such as teachers and religious workers).

Yeah, but would it affect changing from a non-EU L to a B in a year or two's time?

No. As long as the L permit holder had been admitted to live and work in CH on their own merit and not as a dependent (or as a very specialized teacher / religion worker which is most certainly not the case here) the law is clear, there are no language requirements.

It might get exciting if they had a family admitted together with them on dependent L permits. Then the family (not the main permit holder) would need to learn the language to at least an A1 level to get their B permits. But again, the law allows for submitting a proof that you signed up to a language class and a commitment to present an A1 certificate come the first B renewal time in a year instead of an A1 certificate upfront, so it's not too scary.