English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Permits/visas/government (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/)
-   -   Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/292737-can-i-keep-my-permit-living-ch-working-de.html)

Home 27.06.2019 00:18

Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Hello,

I’ve got a situation that is not really common in Switzerland and there is also not much on EF here.

I am currently on a five year B permit (EU) and will soon start to work in Germany. I really want to keep my permit as my family lives with me in CH and I would like to work in Switzerland in the not so distant future.

I will travel home every weekend (workplace is not near the border), but will stay in Germany during the week. This will lead to me being registered in both Switzerland and Germany at the same time, hopefully not an issue.

I will also pay full taxes in Germany due to bilateral agreements that prohibit former residents of Germany to avoid full taxation for five years after relocating to Switzerland.

Is there anything that I should or shouldn’t do in order to keep my current permit?

Any advice or information is much appreciated.

Home

qwertz 27.06.2019 00:44

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
You would be considered a dual DE CH resident (also for tax purposes)

Yes you can keep the permit you just need to tell the cantonal migration office you are working abroad and returning weekly to your family in CH.

Since you return on a weekly basis and your center of vital interests remains in CH your residence permit will not become invalid despite spending more time abroad than in CH.

You won’t need to pay for Swiss KVG as you will be covered by German health insurance (make sure you request this exemption at your cantonal health insurance office). Your family will still have to be insured by KVG however.

As you said you pay income tax in Germany (and are exempt from Swiss income tax as long as you do not perform work in CH) in line with the dual tax treaty.

Once you change your status to worker abroad you will be asked to make a tax declaration in CH (even if you paid tax at source in your previous CH job and so didn’t have to before) and you need to declare your German income and ask to be exempt from paying Swiss tax on it.

roegner 27.06.2019 05:29

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qwertz (Post 3079078)
You would be considered a dual DE CH resident (also for tax purposes)

Yes you can keep the permit you just need to tell the cantonal migration office you are working abroad and returning weekly to your family in CH.

Since you return on a weekly basis and your center of vital interests remains in CH your residence permit will not become invalid despite spending more time abroad than in CH.

Won´t OP get a G permit?

qwertz 27.06.2019 08:47

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Swiss G permit is if you work (earn income and perform work) in CH and therefore are taxed at source in CH but live abroad (anywhere in the EU for EU nationals and border zones only for non-EU nationals) with a minimum of a weekly return home for EU nationals and a daily return home for non-EU nationals

Home 27.06.2019 09:30

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Thank you qwertz!


Do you (or anyone else) happen to know whether there is any regulation regarding cross-border workers in the opposite direction, i.e., requirements to fulfil in order to keep my permit B?

Would you say there could be a problem, if I did not manage to come home for a weekend? Or do I have to provide proof of my returns?


Maybe it is important: I am actually here on a family reunification permit, which I got for the fact that my father has been living in CH for quite a while now and I have never worked in CH before (but was finishing my studies).



Anyways, I couldn't find much online about this situation, looks like it is rather rare that foreign residents work abroad and live here. Maybe my local municipality or the cantonal immigration office knows more?

qwertz 27.06.2019 12:04

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
It’s not that rare to work in Brussels London Germany Netherlands etc and continue living in CH

Within Schengen there is no way to prove you come back every week but I wouldn’t play with fire

Look up the directives PDF of the law on foreigners and integration and under the „revocation of permit” subheading what I mentioned above is clearly outlined

In some cantons (like BE for example) in the permit renewal forms there is even a box with „working abroad” option so it’s not that uncommon

Would get in touch with cantonal migration authority and stress your family/father/centre of vital interests remains in CH

Home 27.06.2019 13:41

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Thank you very much qwertz!

That helped a lot. Will soon get in touch with authorities, better sooner than later ;)

In case some unexpected things are happening, I’ll probably update this thread.

Home 27.06.2019 15:27

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Just an update (for anyone interested, or being in a similar situation at any point during their stay in CH):


I just called the cantonal immigration office and told them about my case.



It turns out they would want to argue that my center of life will be in Germany in case I will be longer than 6 months in employment there. It was just the opinion of one person there, maybe the organization would handle it differently when it comes to this point.


Anyways, the person on the other side would not accept my family (as I have got no partner or children living here with me) or me coming home every weekend as reasons to justify that Switzerland remains my center of life.



Well, in case I will be working longer than 6 months in Germany, which is not quite clear as it will be a 6-month internship in the beginning, I will definetely have a lot of arguing to do in order to keep my current permit :msnthink:


Home

3Wishes 27.06.2019 22:41

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 3079123)
Maybe it is important: I am actually here on a family reunification permit, which I got for the fact that my father has been living in CH for quite a while now and I have never worked in CH before (but was finishing my studies)...

I think this is definitely relevant. Are you an EU or non-EU citizen? If EU then I would think it's easier than if non-EU.

Home 05.07.2019 18:34

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 3079338)
I think this is definitely relevant. Are you an EU or non-EU citizen? If EU then I would think it's easier than if non-EU.

I am an EU citizen (as is my father), but still it seems quite difficult for someone who does not return home every day and moreover, has no partner or children living in CH.

Let’s see if I’m gonna work for more than 6 months in DE, if yes, I’ll give an update of how things will work out in this case.

If only I had a C permit, then I could at least stay abroad for up to 4 years, without losing my permit.

Home

st2lemans 05.07.2019 18:53

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 3081197)
If only I had a C permit, then I could at least stay abroad for up to 4 years, without losing my permit.

Not to take a job in a foreign country.

Tom

Home 16.11.2019 20:28

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Hello together,


I am writing again as I need some advice.


It is now the case that I will be working in Germany for a whole year (as an intern!). I still travel home to my father most weekends, but I am becoming more and more worried that my local municipality or the cantonal migration office will start raising questions regarding my center of life or even try to revoke my residence permit after the first six months of my internship.



It would be real hustle to argue with them over my residence status as I am planning to stay in CH long-term. I just could not find a suitable internship in CH.



Can I do anything in order to keep my current permit? If they started investigating over these 6 additional months, would it help to point out that I am working on a fixed-term internship contract and that I am planning to do further studies in CH?



I am a dual Spanish-German national and speak fluent German (if that is of any importance?).


My local municipality knows that I work abroad as they received a copy stating that I am exempt from Swiss health insurance due to me working in Germany.


Any advice is very much appreciated!


Home

roegner 16.11.2019 20:37

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 3121050)
It is now the case that I will be working in Germany for a whole year (as an intern!). I still travel home to my father most weekends, but I am becoming more and more worried that my local municipality or the cantonal migration office will start raising questions regarding my center of life or even try to revoke my residence permit after the first six months of my internship.

It would be real hustle to argue with them over my residence status as I am planning to stay in CH long-term. I just could not find a suitable internship in CH.

Can I do anything in order to keep my current permit? If they started investigating over these 6 additional months, would it help to point out that I am working on a fixed-term internship contract and that I am planning to do further studies in CH?



I am a dual Spanish-German national and speak fluent German (if that is of any importance?).


My local municipality knows that I work abroad as they received a copy stating that I am exempt from Swiss health insurance due to me working in Germany.

If you are EU, you can easily apply for another b permit when you return.

If you are fluent, give your municipality a call?

Home 16.11.2019 21:01

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3121054)
If you are EU, you can easily apply for another b permit when you return.

If you are fluent, give your municipality a call?


Thanks for your input!


I know I could easily get a new permit but it would also mean additional costs, efforts, delay of c permit, problems with my bank account ... so ideally, I would like to keep my current permit ;)


I am afraid that calling my municipality and asking about these things will cause them to start investigating my residence status.


Maybe there is nothing I can do at all? :confused: Except for hoping that the following 6 months pass smoothly.



Home

roegner 16.11.2019 21:06

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 3121058)
Thanks for your input!


I know I could easily get a new permit but it would also mean additional costs, efforts, delay of c permit, problems with my bank account ... so ideally, I would like to keep my current permit ;)


I am afraid that calling my municipality and asking about these things will cause them to start investigating my residence status.


Maybe there is nothing I can do at all? :confused: Except for hoping that the following 6 months pass smoothly.



Home

Paying taxes in Germany, having your permit scrutinized, fearing it all may go wrong, that is not a hassle? Your income is in Germany so they will tax you there, you will have to pay for health insurance..... And yes, the authorities in CH will probably look into this. Why risk that all?

Home 16.11.2019 21:17

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3121061)
Paying taxes in Germany, having your permit scrutinized, fearing it all may go wrong, that is not a hassle? Your income is in Germany so they will tax you there, you will have to pay for health insurance..... And yes, the authorities in CH will probably look into this. Why risk that all?


Thanks for your advice.


But do you really think the authorities will look into this on their own? And even if they do, they would surely need some time (months?) and evidence to revoke my permit?


I know it's quite a complicated case...

Home

Island Monkey 16.11.2019 21:20

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
All I can suggest, is that if they decide your centre of life is not here and therefore want to remove your permit, that you could hire a lawyer who would fight to prove otherwise. Not sure it would be worth it or successful though.

roegner 16.11.2019 21:21

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 3121066)
Sorry, I don't really get what you're trying to say.

Do you mean giving them a call will result into them looking into my situation? So you would suggest standing (very) still?

I know it's quite a complicated case...

Home

No, it is not complicated. You make it complicated.

Call the authorities to see if there is a way to do this legally. If not, go to Germany, get your permit there, return to CH and get a new one. One year is not going to make that much of a difference.

Home 16.11.2019 21:31

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Monkey (Post 3121067)
All I can suggest, is that if they decide your centre of life is not here and therefore want to remove your permit, that you could hire a lawyer who would fight to prove otherwise. Not sure it would be worth it or successful though.


Thanks for the information. I haven't considered that, but I am also sceptical whether it's worth it.



Home

Home 16.11.2019 21:39

Re: Can I keep my permit? Living in CH, working in DE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3121068)
No, it is not complicated. You make it complicated.

Call the authorities to see if there is a way to do this legally. If not, go to Germany, get your permit there, return to CH and get a new one. One year is not going to make that much of a difference.


Well, thank you for your open words. I'll consider calling my local municipality soon, maybe they can tell me what's the right thing do?


Maybe it would also be an idea to restart my health insurance sooner so that this would not lead to any questions concerning my residence permit?



Home


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:03.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0