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Old 04.07.2019, 19:30
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Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Hello,

I have some doubts regarding my work authorisation in Switzerland. Would be great if you can help with the answers.

Current Situation -

I am an Indian citizen on L-permit (Familiennachzug ohne Erwerbstatigkeit) living in Basel-Stadt. I arrived in May 2019.

My spouse, also an Indian citizen, is on a L-permit from October 2017 till September 2019. Her employer has applied for a B-permit, expected in October 2019.

Now, I have got a position in Switzerland with my previous Indian employer and they will also apply for work authorisation.

Questions -

1. Should my employer apply for work authorisation based on my -
(a) family reunification permit OR
(b) apply a new work permit for me

2. In case of (a), given that my wife’s B-permit is in process, would the work authorisation be granted to me under the conditions for L-permit or B-permit?

3. In case of (b), can it be done while I live in Switzerland or do I need to surrender my current resident permit, go back to India and apply for a new work permit/visa?

Let me know if you need further information. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04.07.2019, 20:18
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

There are not two systems. Standard procedure for Non-EU is two years on the L permit, then the employer must again prove that they cannot find anyone who can do the job in Switzerland/EU/UK and then the B.



For the 'dependent spouse' the Non-EU work permit means no permission to work. Your potential employer has to go through the same process, whether you are inside or outside Switzerland - they still have to prove that no-one local can be found to do the job.



Your potential employer can try to get you a work permission - I was able to do this as a 'dependent spouse'... or they could wait until your wife's B Permit is approved, then the day it comes into force, you can get permission to work. My work permission on L was tied to my employer. My work permission on a dependent B was not tied so I could change jobs once the B was in force.
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Old 04.07.2019, 20:24
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Be aware if you get work approval on your L it is still tied to the spouses L-permit. If it does not get convert/extended to a B you both have to leave.
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Old 04.07.2019, 21:21
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Thanks for the reply.

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Your potential employer can try to get you a work permission - i was able to do this as a 'dependent spouse'... or they could wait until your wife's b permit is approved, then the day it comes into force, you can get permission to work.
As I understand, the process to get the work authorisation (proving that they cannot find anyone within Swiss/EU for the job) typically takes 2-3 months. Is that right?

If it takes that long, my wife should get the B-permit within that time as well and I can start working without a separate authorisation. So, in any case, I need to wait for 2-3 months before I can start working.

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My work permission on a dependent b was not tied so i could change jobs once the b was in force.
Tangential question here -

Is the work authorisation on dependent B tied to the B-permit of the main spouse? Is there a process to de-link the work authorisation on B-permit from the main spouse and having an independent B-permit?

Or the only way to get an independent B-permit is for the employer to apply for a fresh permit by proving that they cannot find anyone in Swiss/EU for the job?
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Old 04.07.2019, 21:42
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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...Is the work authorisation on dependent B tied to the B-permit of the main spouse? Is there a process to de-link the work authorisation on B-permit from the main spouse and having an independent B-permit?

Or the only way to get an independent B-permit is for the employer to apply for a fresh permit by proving that they cannot find anyone in Swiss/EU for the job?
Yes, your permit depends on hers. If she gets B, then you get B. You can't de-couple your permits, and while her application is in process you can't apply to switch who is the main permit holder.
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  #6  
Old 04.07.2019, 22:57
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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Yes, your permit depends on hers. If she gets B, then you get B. You can't de-couple your permits, and while her application is in process you can't apply to switch who is the main permit holder.
It's not really possible to switch them anyway for non-EU nationals. Had a few reports here over the years where people have tried and been denied. The law is clear:

"The possibility of engaging in a gainful activity for family members is related, according to art. 26 and 27 OASA, for the duration of the authorization of the person who has benefited from family reunification. If the spouse's residence permit is not renewed, his family members can not claim a right to continue their gainful activity (Article 6 (2) OASA)."
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Old 05.07.2019, 00:22
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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It's not really possible to switch them anyway for non-EU nationals. Had a few reports here over the years where people have tried and been denied. The law is clear:

"The possibility of engaging in a gainful activity for family members is related, according to art. 26 and 27 OASA, for the duration of the authorization of the person who has benefited from family reunification. If the spouse's residence permit is not renewed, his family members can not claim a right to continue their gainful activity (Article 6 (2) OASA)."
Well it is possible technically but the employer must be able to quickly and successfully go through the non-EU hiring hoops for the now-to-be-independently working spouse. That requires a lot of luck and a very finely tuned non-EU hiring process

I know several people who successfully pulled this off at a certain Very Large Tech Company (the spouses were both working there but one of them had initially immigrated as a trailing dependent spouse and only got hired later, but then the main permit holder decided to take a break from the big corp world or, in another case, they dramatically ceased to be spouses ).
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Old 08.07.2019, 20:19
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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Be aware if you get work approval on your L it is still tied to the spouses L-permit. If it does not get convert/extended to a B you both have to leave.
We have been informed by my wife's company that her B-permit is approved and will start as soon as her L-permit expires.
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Old 08.07.2019, 20:35
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Thanks for all the replies.

I spoke to HR in my organisation today and he mentioned that it would be better that they apply for a fresh work permit (mostly L) for me. He is getting an opinion from the Immigration team as well.

As both of us will be on separate work permits and given that my wife will get a B-permit in less than 3 months, I am assuming we will be on different status (B for her and L for me). Is that possible? Or will they give me a B-permit as well?

More importantly, as I asked in my original post, can the fresh work permit application be done while I live in Switzerland or do I need to surrender my current resident permit, go back to India and apply for a new work permit/visa?
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Old 08.07.2019, 20:58
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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Thanks for all the replies.

I spoke to HR in my organisation today and he mentioned that it would be better that they apply for a fresh work permit (mostly L) for me. He is getting an opinion from the Immigration team as well.

As both of us will be on separate work permits and given that my wife will get a B-permit in less than 3 months, I am assuming we will be on different status (B for her and L for me). Is that possible? Or will they give me a B-permit as well?

More importantly, as I asked in my original post, can the fresh work permit application be done while I live in Switzerland or do I need to surrender my current resident permit, go back to India and apply for a new work permit/visa?
Your permit is dependent upon hers. That's how it works. There is no point in your employer trying to get an independent one. If she gets a B, you get a B and you can work for the employer. You're making it more complicated than it is.

Edit - And you don't need to go back to India for another D-visa.
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Old 09.07.2019, 03:10
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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Your permit is dependent upon hers. That's how it works. There is no point in your employer trying to get an independent one. If she gets a B, you get a B and you can work for the employer. You're making it more complicated than it is.
I also hope it is simpler than it sounds in my head right now. Will wait for feedback from HR and Immigration folks.
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Old 09.07.2019, 09:16
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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Thanks for all the replies.

I spoke to HR in my organisation today and he mentioned that it would be better that they apply for a fresh work permit (mostly L) for me. He is getting an opinion from the Immigration team as well.

As both of us will be on separate work permits and given that my wife will get a B-permit in less than 3 months, I am assuming we will be on different status (B for her and L for me). Is that possible? Or will they give me a B-permit as well?

More importantly, as I asked in my original post, can the fresh work permit application be done while I live in Switzerland or do I need to surrender my current resident permit, go back to India and apply for a new work permit/visa?
Hi,
I would like to clarify some basic points to your situation.


1) In Switzerlannd, the husband and wife can never be on two independent permits at any time. one is always dependent on the other.
2) so if your wife's B permit is approved, there is no need of any permit for you to work because you will get a dependent B permit with permission to work.
3) if your company again files for a new permit for you, if it is approved, the authorities will automatically change your wife's permit to your dependent permit.
4) depending on the stability of jobs, you have to chose whether you or your wife should have an independent permit because the dependent permit is always depedent on the main permit holder. ie. if the main permit holder loses job, the dependent also have to leave the country.
you said you are going to work for an Indian company , experience has shown that they will not fight hard for permits as soon as it becomes difficult, so never count on them that they can help you for permit renewals in the future. and most of the times the permits given out to Indian companies are very very restricted (even a B with them is similar to L) and normally extentabale only for a few years (2 or 4 years), after that it is almost impossible to extend the permit.


cheers
happycreature
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Old 17.07.2019, 10:39
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Thanks for all your replies. It is really helpful.

Update from my side - My wife's employer informed us that her B-permit has been approved and will be effective 1st August 2019 instead of October 2019 as was communicated earlier (her current L-permit was valid upto end of September).

I shared this with my future employer and they are saying that I can now work without additional authorisation. However, need to wait till I get my new residence permit. They can issue the contract only after that.

Is this right? I don't see a reason to wait for the new residence permit when the B-permit is valid from 1st August.

Also, as I understand, getting the new residence permit would take at least 1 month. Is there any way to get it quicker? We are in Basel-Stadt.
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Old 17.07.2019, 10:55
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Yes, because they'll need a copy of your residence permit for their records and to prove you can work without authorisation.
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Old 17.07.2019, 18:48
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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...Also, as I understand, getting the new residence permit would take at least 1 month. Is there any way to get it quicker? We are in Basel-Stadt.
One possibility would be to request an official letter from the municipality stating that
1 - the dependent B permit is approved
2 - it is being processed and you'll have the actual permit in your hands soon, AND
3 - that you're authorized to start work. That should suffice for the employer to issue a contract.

Even then, I think you're being a bit cheeky and impatient. The timeline has been moved up from October to 1 August and that's still not good enough for you. If your employer wants you that badly, they can wait until the paperwork is proper and so can you.
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Old 18.07.2019, 09:30
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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One possibility would be to request an official letter from the municipality stating that
1 - the dependent B permit is approved
2 - it is being processed and you'll have the actual permit in your hands soon, AND
3 - that you're authorized to start work. That should suffice for the employer to issue a contract.
Good suggestion. I will try this.

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Even then, I think you're being a bit cheeky and impatient. The timeline has been moved up from October to 1 August and that's still not good enough for you. If your employer wants you that badly, they can wait until the paperwork is proper and so can you.
Just itching to get back to work.

Jokes apart, my employer wants me to go to India and start work if it takes a while to start work here. Personally, I would prefer to be here right now and hence the urgency. Will obviously wait for the paperwork to be proper to start.
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Old 18.07.2019, 10:50
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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...Just itching to get back to work.
You did choose the name hyper, so...
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Old 18.07.2019, 11:05
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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Good suggestion. I will try this.



Just itching to get back to work.

Jokes apart, my employer wants me to go to India and start work if it takes a while to start work here. Personally, I would prefer to be here right now and hence the urgency. Will obviously wait for the paperwork to be proper to start.
be aware that if you leave for India on your employer's request, then it would mean you have to deregister and need to apply for family reunification permit again to come back to Switzerland (that takes a few months to get). your best bet is to wait it out until you get your residence permit in hand and start working. also do not make the mistake of starting work until you have the dependent residence permit in hand. regarding the work permission, it is almost certain that you will have working permission because normally a dependent gets the same kind of permit as the main permit holder.
(also count the holidays season now which might delay your arrival of residence permit).


cheers
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Old 18.07.2019, 15:01
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

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You did choose the name hyper, so...
Exactly! Kudos to you for linking that one..

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be aware that if you leave for India on your employer's request, then it would mean you have to deregister and need to apply for family reunification permit again to come back to Switzerland (that takes a few months to get).
Why would I need to deregister here to go to India and work? I am an Indian citizen working in India on an Indian payroll.

Or would it be the case that I cannot hold a family reunification visa for Switzerland and be employed in India at the same time?
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Old 18.07.2019, 15:23
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Re: Swiss L-Permit Dependent to Work while B-permit is in process?

Family reunification means your centre of life is here and also since you're the dependent in this situation you're supposed to be living with your spouse/partner, not be thousands of miles away. If you're not going to be living/working here, you don't need a permit.

But to a certain extent it will depend on how long your employer wants you to work in India. A B permit will expire after 6 months if you're out of the country that long or longer and you'd have to go through the whole family reunification application again to get a new permit.
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