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Old 21.12.2019, 00:50
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Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

Hi,

US citizen here in a tough spot. My 4 year old son is Swiss, his mother is Swiss, and I am not married to her. I had an EU visa which was revoked when he was just 7 months old and have been only able to be in Switzerland to be with him a total of 6 months a year. Luckily, his mother has periodically brought him to visit me in Turkey, where I have been parked while waiting to be able to re enter. I have gotten quite good at counting Shengen days.

Anyway, I am of course quite tired of the situation (imagine saving money in Istanbul to spend in Bern!) and despondent that there seemed to be no alternative since 1. there is no employment visa available unless a potential employer proves they spent 3 months advertising the position in Switzerland and found no suitable applicants, and another 3 months advertising the position in the entire EU, before they can even be allowed to hire me . . . 2. I my German isn't good enough to study at ANY school 3. marrying his mother is not an option (she seems to think my inability to be there consistently is both my problem alone and somehow my fault)

AND THEN, I noticed a thing available to Swiss permit holders called Family Reunification . . . in which a person who currently has a residence permit is able to bring their foreign children OR PARENTS to Switzerland and those people would get visas.

So, basically, my 4 year old, a Swiss citizen, cannot have his father here for longer than 6 months a year, but anyone from ANYWHERE outside Switzerland who has been approved for a residence permit can have theirs here all year long? Please someone explain to me how this makes ANY sense.

Sincerely,

Imaginary Lines kept me from seeing my baby's first steps
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:05
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

Whew, your situation must be very, very frustrating.

"Family reunification" has very specific rules. The family member in Switzerland has to demonstrate that he/she is able to fully support the family member who is applying to come and live with them, and also already have accommodation that is large enough to accommodated the family member arriving into Switzerland. That means your son would have to own enough money already, to support you, and a large enough home for you to have a room living with him, if you were to move to Switzerland.

That may sound absurd in your situation, but the "parents" type of "family reunification" is usually used for aging parents who come to live with the adult, earning children. Even then, many applications are turned down, and it is by no means automatic. This is sometimes because the financial link cannot be proven. You see, in the case of such parents outside of Switzerland, the [adult] child in Switzerland also has to demonstrate that the parents were already dependent upon (= being supported by) the child, before the parent entered Switzerland.
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:19
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

Only EU/EFTA are allowed to bring their parents under family-reunification program.

Basically you have two options.

1. Get married.
2. She joins you.
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:20
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

ok, but why does it make sense for a Swiss mother to be on social support money when the perfectly capable father of her child is forced to work in a country where he earns a tenth of what he could in Switzerland. Of course, I can't even work full time there anyway, as that would give me almost no time to spend with my child . . . catch 22 . . . .
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:25
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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Hi,

US citizen here in a tough spot.
...
there seemed to be no alternative since
1. there is no employment visa available unless a potential employer proves they spent 3 months advertising the position in Switzerland and found no suitable applicants, and another 3 months advertising the position in the entire EU, before they can even be allowed to hire me . . .
2. I my German isn't good enough to study at ANY school
3. marrying his mother is not an option (she seems to think my inability to be there consistently is both my problem alone and somehow my fault)
It seems to me that of the three points above, you can influence only 1. or 2., an of those, 2. is the most accessible. Learn German, learn German, learn German. You can do so online, and probably also find German-speakers where you are, too.

Make sure you are legal, wherever you are. If you have papers to stay in Turkey, that's a good thing. If you do not, then get thee back to the US, or to somewhere else you can be legally.

The reason I say that is because "the willingness to sojourn somewhere illegally" is the biggest red flag for any immigration authority. If you are shown to be illegally in Turkey (i.e. to have overstayed your visa there), you will clock up minus points when the time comes to apply for permission to enter Switzerland.

I think you have a long journey ahead of you. Learn German, learn German, learn German. Then study anything you can to get a possible niche permit (according to your point 1).

Failing that, reasearch the immigration rules for every single EU country separately. Then try to move to one of those whose citizenship requirements are relatively low, so that you can aim to fulfil those and become an EU citizen. As EU, you will be free to live in Switzerland, as long as you have a job here that can support yourself, but this then can be any job, not just a super-specialised one.

With regard to 3.: if she doesn't want to marry you, she won't, not ever. However, if she is hesitating, then sometimes a demonstration that one are doing everything in one's power to move ahead (in your case, taking all the steps needed to get to Switzerland legally and be employed and self-supporting here), can tip the balance.
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:29
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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ok, but why does it make sense for a Swiss mother to be on social support money when the perfectly capable father of her child is forced to work in a country where he earns a tenth of what he could in Switzerland.
Nope, it doesn't make sense, not at all. But rulz is rulz.
I'd advise putting your energy into finding the legal, do-able, pragmatic ways to move to Switzerland. And it is likely to take several years.

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Of course, I can't even work full time there anyway, as that would give me almost no time to spend with my child . . . catch 22 . . . .
No, this is not accurate. Many parents here work full time, and they do spend time with their children, for breakfast before work, every evening after work, and on their weekends or free days, and during vacation. Also, quite a lot of parents of both genders work part-time (like 90% of 80%) and that one extra half-day or day is then spent with the children.

Take courage! Your situation is definitely problematic, but now is the time to do everything that YOU can, within the system as it stands since you cannot change that system, to get to Switzerland.
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:29
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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ok, but why does it make sense for a Swiss mother to be on social support money when the perfectly capable father of her child is forced to work in a country where he earns a tenth of what he could in Switzerland. Of course, I can't even work full time there anyway, as that would give me almost no time to spend with my child . . . catch 22 . . . .
Nobody forces you to work in Turkey for only "a 10th" of what you could earn here. And the idea is that when people get family into Switzerland that they are able to support them financially if needed.

If she is on social support already, even marriage is no guarantee for you to enter the country, but if allowed in you would be o.k. to take a job.
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:39
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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It seems to me that of the three points above, you can influence only 1. or 2., an of those, 2. is the most accessible. Learn German, learn German, learn German. You can do so online, and probably also find German-speakers where you are, too.
Ich spreche so viel deutsch Ich habe es in der High School und am College gemacht. Aber meine Kenntnisse reichen nicht aus, um einen Master in Soziologie zu machen. es ist nicht leicht, auf hochdeutsch besser zu werden, wenn schweizer deutsch gesprochen wird.


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Make sure you are legal, wherever you are. If you have papers to stay in Turkey, that's a good thing. If you do not, then get thee back to the US, or to somewhere else you can be legally.

The reason I say that is because "the willingness to sojourn somewhere illegally" is the biggest red flag for any immigration authority. If you are shown to be illegally in Turkey (i.e. to have overstayed your visa there), you will clock up minus points when the time comes to apply for permission to enter Switzerland.
I have a residence permit in Turkey, but it expires soon, and they are no longer extending residence permits for tourists.


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I think you have a long journey ahead of you. Learn German, learn German, learn German. Then study anything you can to get a possible niche permit (according to your point 1).

Failing that, reasearch the immigration rules for every single EU country separately. Then try to move to one of those whose citizenship requirements are relatively low, so that you can aim to fulfil those and become an EU citizen. As EU, you will be free to live in Switzerland, as long as you have a job here that can support yourself, but this then can be any job, not just a super-specialised one.
if I was to attempt to reside in say, Germany, it would be about 10 years before I could become a citizen. By then, he's 15 . . . in the meantime, I've been out of the country working . . . not the best option, but one I've considered. The biggest problem is getting an anmeldung in germany. once you have that, you can apply for a visa . . . I'd rather just get a student visa.

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With regard to 3.: if she doesn't want to marry you, she won't, not ever. However, if she is hesitating, then sometimes a demonstration that one are doing everything in one's power to move ahead (in your case, taking all the steps needed to get to Switzerland legally and be employed and self-supporting here), can tip the balance.
Thanks for that. The damage is done. 2 months alone with a toddler was all she needed to feel she could not rely on me at all. We broke up 2 months after my return, and I needed to leave a month after that.. And my child support payments are bare minimum due to this situation. If I manage to be able to stay at all, there wont be wedding bells in the future.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.01.2020 at 21:17. Reason: fixed quoting, please don't mess with HTML tags when quoting
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:44
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Nope, it doesn't make sense, not at all. But rulz is rulz.
I'd advise putting your energy into finding the legal, do-able, pragmatic ways to move to Switzerland. And it is likely to take several years.

No, this is not accurate. Many parents here work full time, and they do spend time with their children, for breakfast before work, every evening after work, and on their weekends or free days, and during vacation. Also, quite a lot of parents of both genders work part-time (like 90% of 80%) and that one extra half-day or day is then spent with the children.

Take courage! Your situation is definitely problematic, but now is the time to do everything that YOU can, within the system as it stands since you cannot change that system, to get to Switzerland.
I meant that I can't work full time in Turkey and still take advantage of the full 6 months I am legally allowed to be in Switzerland. So I instead work intensively for 3 months saving every penny and working 70 hours a week in turkey to be able to afford a flat and groceries for 3 months at a time in switzerland while paying my expenses there

plus plane tickets and child support

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.01.2020 at 21:19. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:46
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

Trying to find a job and stay in Germany an option?
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Old 21.12.2019, 01:47
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Nobody forces you to work in Turkey for only "a 10th" of what you could earn here. And the idea is that when people get family into Switzerland that they are able to support them financially if needed.
I am not legal to work in any EU country, and Turkey is the closest non EU country to my child where I can work and save money. If I was able to work in Switzerland, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I am forced not to.

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Trying to find a job and stay in Germany an option?
Please advise. I think the rules are the same there, no? They have to justify hiring a non EU national some way . . . but I would have to be extraordinarily qualified to . . .

Thanks everyone . . . I am having one of those late night moments of frustration with my situation, and it's been helpful to chat . . .

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.01.2020 at 21:19. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 21.12.2019, 02:08
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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Please advise. I think the rules are the same there, no? They have to justify hiring a non EU national some way . . . but I would have to be extraordinarily qualified to . . .
Germany in 2020 will introduce new laws making it easier by removing a bunch of bureaucratic hurdles. Now for fields with a shortages like caretakers, electricians and carpenters for example the "EU-First" rule will be disabled. You would need to be skilled, speak German and be able to maintain yourself while looking for a job.

I have no clue what your skills, education and experience are but you might want to see if this opens any options for you. Living in South-Germany would put you at a driving distance to easily come over for weekends, or even have the kid in your place. America simply is sort of the other side of the earth.
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Old 21.12.2019, 02:46
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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Failing that, reasearch the immigration rules for every single EU country separately. Then try to move to one of those whose citizenship requirements are relatively low, so that you can aim to fulfil those and become an EU citizen. As EU, you will be free to live in Switzerland, as long as you have a job here that can support yourself, but this then can be any job, not just a super-specialised one.
Germany would be realistic, in terms of commuting to see your child. And since you have basic German already, that's a good start.

However, I've just had a glance through some of the EU countries and it is suprising how divergent their requirements are. Some 5 years, some 8, some 10. If I were in your shoes, I could research each and every EU country, just to find out what it takes to get in, and how long you'd have to live there to apply for citizenship. Then re-model your skill-set to achieve what it takes to get into the EU.

Have a look at Austria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austri...strian_citizen
It's 10 years to naturalise, but (according to wiki)
The residence requirement may be reduced or waived in the following cases:
...
...
...
persons with the knowledge of the German language on level B2 or with proof of substantial personal integration (after 6 years of uninterrupted residence).

I hear you about the years of your little boy's life ticking by while you can't often see him, and that is, indeed, terribly sad. However, for him, the best he can have is a dad who is doing everything in his power to find a way to move closer to his son - even if that is by a circuitous route through another country.

Last edited by doropfiz; 21.12.2019 at 03:03.
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Old 21.12.2019, 02:53
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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I have a residence permit in Turkey, but it expires soon, and they are no longer extending residence permits for tourists.
I don't understand what this means. Are you a resident in Turkey or a tourist? How does a tourist have a residence permit? To me, these are two different things altogether. But maybe not in Turkey. Could you explain, please? What is no longer being extended?

Have you looked to see whether you can work towards acquiring Turkish citizenship?
https://www.justlanded.com/english/T...sh-citizenship
Or at least Permanent Residence in Turkey? If you could, that would at least give you that bit of security.

In addition, at least to some extent, the EU has acknowleged that Turkey is on the map. See https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp...=470&langId=en, although once again, you'd need to read up every single country's approach with regard to Turkish citizens.
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Old 21.12.2019, 04:32
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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ok, but why does it make sense for a Swiss mother to be on social support money when the perfectly capable father of her child is forced to work in a country where he earns a tenth of what he could in Switzerland. Of course, I can't even work full time there anyway, as that would give me almost no time to spend with my child . . . catch 22 . . . .
Pretty much the same as why does it makes sense for the government to give a person who has not bothered to learn the language, doe not seem to have any highly marketable skills otherwise they'd already have obtained a permit, and who's dependants are already on state aid... basically you are more likely to be a burden on the state.....

You've had at least three years to learn the language... being able to speak the language would dramatically improve your chances of obtaining a job and would aid your case for a permit with the authorities, so why not start on that????
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Old 21.12.2019, 04:34
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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Germany in 2020 will introduce new laws making it easier by removing a bunch of bureaucratic hurdles. Now for fields with a shortages like caretakers, electricians and carpenters for example the "EU-First" rule will be disabled. You would need to be skilled, speak German and be able to maintain yourself while looking for a job.

I have no clue what your skills, education and experience are but you might want to see if this opens any options for you. Living in South-Germany would put you at a driving distance to easily come over for weekends, or even have the kid in your place. America simply is sort of the other side of the earth.
very true. Do you have any links to this?
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Old 21.12.2019, 06:34
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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Germany in 2020 will introduce new laws making it easier by removing a bunch of bureaucratic hurdles. Now for fields with a shortages like caretakers, electricians and carpenters for example the "EU-First" rule will be disabled. You would need to be skilled, speak German and be able to maintain yourself while looking for a job.
Germany canít change an EU directives unilaterally and they are not, all they are doing is changing over to the Eurostat method which will bring them into line with most of the other states plus Switzerland. In the end it will make very little difference on the round for third country citizens.
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Old 21.12.2019, 07:34
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

So, you are a US citizen? What is you work background? Could you get a job in the UK that would get you a work visa? Or Ireland? They both have 5 year citizenship requirements (Irish more useful as EU citizenship). And at least if you were in Dublin or London, you could pop over to Switzerland regularly.

Edit: You also talked about student visas. Maybe you could study in the UK or Ireland if your German isn't good enough to study in Germany and Switzerland? Although any student visa route will require you to show you have sufficient funds available.

Last edited by Island Monkey; 21.12.2019 at 07:48.
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Old 21.12.2019, 08:31
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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ok, but why does it make sense for a Swiss mother to be on social support money when the perfectly capable father of her child is forced to work in a country where he earns a tenth of what he could in Switzerland. Of course, I can't even work full time there anyway, as that would give me almost no time to spend with my child . . . catch 22 . . . .



The law is made for everyone, not just for your particular case.




OPTION 4 : Find somebody else to marry who has EU passport
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Old 21.12.2019, 08:31
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Re: Trying again - can I get family reunification as the father of a swiss child

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ok, but why does it make sense for a Swiss mother to be on social support money when the perfectly capable father of her child is forced to work in a country where he earns a tenth of what he could in Switzerland. Of course, I can't even work full time there anyway, as that would give me almost no time to spend with my child . . . catch 22 . . . .
a) because she is Swiss and you're not.

b) The Swiss don't see you as a family unit since you're not married. You are two individuals who happen to share a child.

Like it or not your only options are to find a job or some way to study here. Neither your child, as doropfiz pointed out, nor she have the financial ability to support you for family reunification and from the sounds of it, even if she did, she wouldn't.

The non-EU hiring criteria is here

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

While it may be hard to get a job this way it can be done if you have the skills/experience an employer is looking for.

Why was your EU visa revoked in the first place? That may also have a bearing on any job/study possibilities here.
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