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  #61  
Old 21.01.2021, 13:46
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Not entirely true. A Non-EU C Permit is linked to the Canton of residence, while EU C Permit enjoys geographical mobility - same as EU B.

Simply said a Non EU cannot simply switch Cantons - a permission is needed even if it's just a formality with a C Permit. EU B or C never needs such a permission
Sorry. This is new. Never heard of this before. Can we get confirmation of this. I have seen people move cantons with C permit (non-EU).
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  #62  
Old 21.01.2021, 14:22
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Sorry. This is new. Never heard of this before. Can we get confirmation of this. I have seen people move cantons with C permit (non-EU).
Can you maybe look it up yourself it's not that difficult
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  #63  
Old 21.01.2021, 14:34
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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I will quote my post again (that was taken from the FNIA SEM guidance) and highlight the part in bold that you are missing:
As I implied earlier, I think the guidance document is in error. We'd already discussed this on another thread, but since you keep bringing it up here is the relevant law, once again. Whatever the guidance document may or may not say it's clearly subservient to the actual law, which is clear on this:

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Art. 62 Revocation of permits and other rulings

1 The competent authority may revoke permits, with the exception of the permanent residence permit, and other rulings under this Act if the foreign national:

a. or their representative in the permit procedure makes false statements or conceals material facts;
b. has been given a long custodial sentence or has been made subject to a criminal measure in terms of Articles 59–61 or 64 of the SCC;

...

Art. 63 Revocation of the permanent residence permit

1 The permanent residence permit may be revoked only if:

a. the requirements of Article 62 paragraph 1 letter a or b are fulfilled;

b. the foreign national has seriously violated or represents a threat to public security and order in Switzerland or abroad or represents a threat to internal or external security;

c. the foreign national or a person they must care for is dependent permanently and to a large extent on social assistance;

d. the foreign national has attempted to obtain Swiss citizenship unlawfully or his or her Swiss citizenship has been revoked based on a legally binding ruling issued in connection with a declaration of nullity under Article 36 of the Swiss Citizenship Act of 20 June 2014;

2 The permanent residence permit may be revoked and replaced by a residence permit if the residence criteria referred to in Article 58a have not been met.

...

Art. 58a Integration criteria

1 When assessing integration, the competent authority shall take the following criteria into account:

a. respect for public safety, security and order;
b. respect for the values of the Federal Constitution;
c. language skills; and
d. participation in working life or efforts to acquire an education.

3 The Federal Council shall determine which language skills are required when granting or renewing a permit.
So to reiterate, there is no provision in the law for a C ('permanent residence') permit to be revoked on the grounds of a lack of language skills.

EDIT: I've added more detail including a referenced Article that mentions the integration criteria, and does appear to leave a possible language requirement in place. Except that it's specifically referring to "Granting or Renewing" a permit. A C permit is not renewed, as discussed in the other thread, so I think this point is moot, but wanted to include it for completeness sake.

Last edited by Guest; 21.01.2021 at 14:55.
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  #64  
Old 21.01.2021, 14:35
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Sorry. This is new. Never heard of this before. Can we get confirmation of this. I have seen people move cantons with C permit (non-EU).
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Can you maybe look it up yourself it's not that difficult
https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...-c-permit.html
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  #65  
Old 21.01.2021, 14:45
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Can you maybe look it up yourself it's not that difficult
That's very bad form. If any of these points are correct they should be supported, by those making the statements, in the form of links to relevant laws or policy documents.

If it's "not that difficult" why are the people making statements that appear to contradict what most people have experienced unable or unwilling to back them up with some supporting evidence?
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  #66  
Old 21.01.2021, 14:59
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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So to reiterate, there is no provision in the law for a C ('permanent residence') permit to be revoked on the grounds of a lack of language skills.
You miss Abs. 2 of Art. 63 FNIA
Quote:
[...]
2 The permanent residence permit may be revoked and replaced by a residence permit if the integration[*] criteria referred to in Article 58a have not been met
[*] The English version says "residence", which is not coorrect.

Art. 58a FNIA
Quote:
1 When assessing integration, the competent authority shall take the following criteria into account:

a. respect for public safety, security and order;
b. respect for the values of the Federal Constitution;
c. language skills; and
d. participation in working life or efforts to acquire an education.

2 Due account shall be taken of the situation of persons who because of disability or illness or other important personal circumstances are unable to meet or have difficulty meeting the integration criteria referred to in paragraph 1 letters c and d.

3 The Federal Council shall determine which language skills are required when granting or renewing a permit.
However it is complete fearmongering if one says this can happen "anytime", willy-nilly, out of the blue. There must be serious language difficulties which become obvious in the interaction with the authorities. And even then there will be most likely be a warning and time to change before a downgrade to B happens. As long as you can limp along and perform all the cicvic duties (registration if you move, act on authority notes, put out the trash on the prescribed days, follow notes from the school of your kids, pay the taxes, etc.) no body will ever check or question your language skills, nor will you permit be at risk.

Calm down, get serious, and to take things out of proportion how they are clearly not handled in real life. You will have a huge pile of other problems and issues before the language skills become an issue regarding your permit C. This will just be the cherry on the top.
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Old 21.01.2021, 15:00
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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You miss Abs. 2 of Art. 63
Yes, I realised, and have added in to the other post now.
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  #68  
Old 21.01.2021, 15:36
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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That's very bad form. If any of these points are correct they should be supported, by those making the statements, in the form of links to relevant laws or policy documents.

If it's "not that difficult" why are the people making statements that appear to contradict what most people have experienced unable or unwilling to back them up with some supporting evidence?
Because all the relevant information is in this thread, it's pure laziness. What is contradicting and what evidence has not been supported exactly?

Art. 67 VZAE

Art. 67 Kantonswechsel
(Art. 37 AIG)

1 Wird der Mittelpunkt der Lebensverhältnisse in einen anderen Kanton verlegt, liegt bewilligungspflichtiger Kantonswechsel vor.

Art. 67 Changement de canton
(art. 37 LEI)

1 Tout transfert du centre d’activité ou d’intérêt dans un autre canton implique la sollicitation d’une autorisation de changement de canton.

Art. 37 al. 3 AIG

Art. 37 Wechsel des Wohnorts in einen anderen Kanton

3 Personen mit einer Niederlassungsbewilligung haben Anspruch auf den Kantonswechsel, wenn keine Widerrufsgründe nach Artikel 63 vorliegen.

Art. 37 Nouvelle résidence dans un autre canton

Le titulaire d’une autorisation d’établissement a droit au changement de canton s’il n’existe aucun motif de révocation au sens de l’art. 63.

You can read my previous post where it details how EU/EFTA C permit holders enjoy full geographic mobility, unlike non-EU C permit holders.
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  #69  
Old 21.01.2021, 15:50
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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EDIT: I've added more detail including a referenced Article that mentions the integration criteria, and does appear to leave a possible language requirement in place. Except that it's specifically referring to "Granting or Renewing" a permit. A C permit is not renewed, as discussed in the other thread, so I think this point is moot, but wanted to include it for completeness sake.
Again wrong, you are relying on a baseless English translation. All Art. 58a para 3 provides is flexibility to define stricter or more lenient language criteria. The scope is non-specific and applies to all permits (Bewilligung / autorisation).
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  #70  
Old 21.01.2021, 16:59
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

Because you got cute with me in the messages earlier, here is some food for thought.
Having lived here for some time, a lot of the guidance is dependent on interpretation and thus blanket statements do not apply.
Just because someone holds a contrary view based on what they have seen or observed, does not make their views wrong or your assertion correct.
I am still at a loss in understanding what your motivation behind these posts. If it is to educate us, Thank You. If it is to argue/debate, then be comfortable with people having a contrary view. If it is to create some kind of anxiety, then you need to find a better use of your time. And if it to rant, please indicate upfront.
I hope you find what you are looking for through these repeated posts. I for one, dont see any value in engaging in this any further.
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  #71  
Old 21.01.2021, 17:08
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Because you got cute with me in the messages earlier, here is some food for thought.
Having lived here for some time, a lot of the guidance is dependent on interpretation and thus blanket statements do not apply.
Just because someone holds a contrary view based on what they have seen or observed, does not make their views wrong or your assertion correct.
I am still at a loss in understanding what your motivation behind these posts. If it is to educate us, Thank You. If it is to argue/debate, then be comfortable with people having a contrary view. If it is to create some kind of anxiety, then you need to find a better use of your time. And if it to rant, please indicate upfront.
I hope you find what you are looking for through these repeated posts. I for one, dont see any value in engaging in this any further.
It is not about having different views or not, it is merely responding to an unfounded challenge if you read the entire thread
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  #72  
Old 21.01.2021, 21:06
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

I seem not to be able to find anything about Non-EU C Permit , I could see Non-EU Ci

and it's not in credit card size since '19 - looks nice.

Could some point me to Non-EU/EFTA C Permit pages - I was always under impression that it's Settlement Permit / Green Card / Niederlassungsbewilligung all same for all regardless of EU or non-EU

Last edited by hoover1; 21.01.2021 at 21:17.
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  #73  
Old 24.01.2021, 12:52
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Unfortuntately, many don't- as they live parrallel lives working and socialising with other expats. Just don't get it myself- but it seems very clear, and not just in Switzerland, but all over.
My colleagues, at CS, speak a mix of American English, Polish, and Hindi as mothertongue. Getting the German practice is hard...
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  #74  
Old 24.01.2021, 13:27
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

which is why it is good to have a life outside your place of work- and join in with local activities- and the whole 'point' re integration. And go or join a course too.
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Old 01.02.2021, 12:52
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

Can anyone find and information on requiring a language certification for G permits?



I'm currently living in Vaud and working in Geneva, but I was considering moving to France and swapping by B permit for a G permit. I have been told the permit swap is simply a case of asking the company RH to handle the paperwork, but I don't want to initiate all this before confirming if the permit 'swap' is more like a 'renewal' and requires a language certification.



And given that I plan to live in France, do I try and contact the Federal Council or the Geneva cantonal office to confirm?
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  #76  
Old 01.02.2021, 12:57
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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[...] do I try and contact the Federal Council
If you have this sort of access to the Federal Council I am quite surprised you are posting on here with questions
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  #77  
Old 01.02.2021, 20:24
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Can anyone find and information on requiring a language certification for G permits?
Your profile doesn't specify your nationality. Are you an EU citizen? If so then you could move to France and get a G permit. If you're non-EU then you can't switch because you're not already a permanent resident in a border zone and yo have no automatic right to live in France.

I don't think there's a language requirement because a G permit is not a residence permit.

If you swap, note that your years counting towards C permit and nationality will probably reset.
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Old 02.02.2021, 05:51
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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If you have this sort of access to the Federal Council I am quite surprised you are posting on here with questions
Ok I am probably trying to contact the wrong authority... I called some number related to this and they told me to call the cantonal office in the canton I work, so I will confirm what they say when I get through.



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Are you an EU citizen?
Yes I have an EU passport, but I do not come from France. Thank you for clarification.
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  #79  
Old 02.02.2021, 11:49
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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Ok I am probably trying to contact the wrong authority...
No, you are just being mad fun of by an other user because you labeled your link a bit incorrectly. How sad.


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C
And given that I plan to live in France, do I try and contact the Federal Council or the ...
The federal council are the seven ministers. Those guys: https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/fe...l-council.html

You linked to a part of the federal administration, and indeed to the very correct part: the State Secretariat for Migration SEM. The SEM belongs to the Federal Department of Justice and Police. The head of that department is Federal Councilor Karin Keller-Sutter.

Renewal of a permit B should not trigger a language test for EU persons:
https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/countri...achweis_EN.pdf

AFAIK a language test for a permit G is only needed when you work in a profession where one is mandatory (public schooling etc.)
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Old 02.02.2021, 13:20
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Re: Language requirement increased for permits from 2020

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My colleagues, at CS, speak a mix of American English, Polish, and Hindi as mothertongue. Getting the German practice is hard...

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which is why it is good to have a life outside your place of work- and join in with local activities- and the whole 'point' re integration. And go or join a course too.
They don't have plenty of spare time on their hands neither endless possibilities.
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