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-   -   Looking for lawyer - US nationality law (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/296514-looking-lawyer-us-nationality-law.html)

TerraceWag 02.02.2020 11:13

Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Hello,

We are looking for a lawyer who has specialist knowledge of US nationality/citizenship law for Swiss citizens and passport holders.

Any recommendations and contact info much appreciated.

Thank you.

TW.

st2lemans 02.02.2020 11:34

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Best is to ask in the US.

But what is the actual question, as some of us have years of experience with such matters?

Tom

TerraceWag 02.02.2020 11:44

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Hi, thanks for the reply.

The question is one of renunciation of US citizenship for a Swiss national.

We already have legal counsel in the US and a lot of research done already but would also like to explore the possibility of a more easily-contactable lawyer based in Switzerland, perhaps also with specialist knowledge regarding Swiss matters on this.

st2lemans 02.02.2020 11:47

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
I did it, no need for a lawyer.

Tom

eng_ch 02.02.2020 11:48

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Have you searched on here? There was a long thread on it a couple of years or so ago

st2lemans 02.02.2020 12:00

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TerraceWag (Post 3143737)
We already have legal counsel in the US and a lot of research done already but would also like to explore the possibility of a more easily-contactable lawyer based in Switzerland, perhaps also with specialist knowledge regarding Swiss matters on this.

The Swiss don't care, BTDT.

Tom

TerraceWag 02.02.2020 12:06

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Hi, yes, have done but not quite the exact info we need.

Guest 02.02.2020 12:14

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
I always thought it was a pretty simple and straight forwards process.

- Fill in some forms.
- Appointment at embassy to renounce.
- Do some final taxes.

Done.

st2lemans 02.02.2020 12:22

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Reflecting, a lawyer may be needed for complex tax/inheritance issues, though not a Swiss lawyer, as it is irrelevant to the Swiss.

Tom

Medea Fleecestealer 02.02.2020 17:08

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TerraceWag (Post 3143737)
Hi, thanks for the reply.

The question is one of renunciation of US citizenship for a Swiss national.

We already have legal counsel in the US and a lot of research done already but would also like to explore the possibility of a more easily-contactable lawyer based in Switzerland, perhaps also with specialist knowledge regarding Swiss matters on this.

Unless it's tax related, there are no Swiss matters on this. They don't care if you give up your US citizenship. In fact, your bank will be very happy if you do.

Otherwise, renouncing is easy. Make an appointment at the embassy, fill in the relevant paperwork they'll send you, go to appointment, check over paperwork, pay the $2,350 fee, stand in front of the Consul/Vice Consul and swear/affirm the oath and that's it. You're no longer American from that point on. Certainly no need for a lawyer for that.

If your legal counsel in the US is telling you anything different from the above (again unless it's US/Swiss tax related), my advice is to walk away. You don't need them, period.

SponPlague 02.02.2020 21:30

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TerraceWag (Post 3143737)
Hi, thanks for the reply.

The question is one of renunciation of US citizenship for a Swiss national.

We already have legal counsel in the US and a lot of research done already but would also like to explore the possibility of a more easily-contactable lawyer based in Switzerland, perhaps also with specialist knowledge regarding Swiss matters on this.

I believe the Zürich mayor, Corine Mauch, is an SME on this? :)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...hter-tax-rules

st2lemans 02.02.2020 21:43

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SponPlague (Post 3143937)
I believe the Zürich mayor, Corine Mauch, is an SME on this? :)

What is an SME? :confused:

Tom

SponPlague 03.02.2020 11:18

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3143946)
What is an SME? :confused:

Tom

Subject Matter Expert. :msnnerd:

Caryl 03.02.2020 14:00

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TerraceWag (Post 3143737)
Hi, thanks for the reply.

The question is one of renunciation of US citizenship for a Swiss national.

We already have legal counsel in the US and a lot of research done already but would also like to explore the possibility of a more easily-contactable lawyer based in Switzerland, perhaps also with specialist knowledge regarding Swiss matters on this.

I think I can answer any questions you are likely to ask. I am retired from the practice of (nationality, tax and bankruptcy) law and take no new clients. I have a few points:

(1) I discourage enquirers from retaining the most Internet-public US counsel except for John Richardson whose fees are low and who has a realistic (in my view) appraisal of the (non-)need for US tax compliance for a good many renunciants

(2) From the Swiss standpoint an issue is conflict with certain pre-renunciation US assets, particularly trusts and some pensions. Also estate planning and family gifting, the lack of any comparable asset title such as RLTs (revocable living trusts) and TOD (transfer on death) accounts. There may also be some issues with Social Security and pensions but the Totalization Agreement and the Tax Treaty deal with all except one wrinkle: US military pensions may be forfeit upon renunciation.

For the rest, as others have said, I don't see a problem. But it's worth noting that investment opportunities are less in Switzerland, and fees considerably higher. But you are free from FATCA and potential double taxation. (If you own a U.S. entity, be aware of the draconian ($25,000) penalty for not filing IRAS Form 5472.)

Rico09 05.02.2020 16:05

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
I've been debating doing this for several years. I have no intention on returning to the US but still have family there and might end up there for a career opportunity. I also worry about the possibility of US nationals who renounce being placed on a "banned for life" list which would prevent me from ever moving back there (imagine Trump making a talking point about those people who "abandoned" their country not being worthy of coming back, regardless of their current citizenship). I've also heard there are some additional tax issues if a US citizen bequeaths assets to a non citizen.

Medea Fleecestealer 05.02.2020 16:55

Re: Looking for lawyer - US nationality law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico09 (Post 3145075)
I've been debating doing this for several years. I have no intention on returning to the US but still have family there and might end up there for a career opportunity. I also worry about the possibility of US nationals who renounce being placed on a "banned for life" list which would prevent me from ever moving back there (imagine Trump making a talking point about those people who "abandoned" their country not being worthy of coming back, regardless of their current citizenship). I've also heard there are some additional tax issues if a US citizen bequeaths assets to a non citizen.

Banned for life, unlikely to happen unless the US learns to write it's laws better. :p

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_A...t_(immigration)

Since you don't have to give a reason for renouncing it's rather difficult to enforce.

For the tax side, best to start researching here

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/tax-...ident-aliens-1

The Isaac Brock Society website also has a lot of info and you're welcome to ask questions if you don't find an answer

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/introduc...brock-society/

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/tax-questions-page/


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