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-   -   Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternatives? (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/296865-non-eu-phd-swiss-uni-rav-job-seeker-s-l-permit-extension-alternatives.html)

RinRaman 22.02.2020 03:33

Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternatives?
 
*I've read a lot of posts about permit issues but nothing recent fits my exact situation and I know the laws have changed in the last few years, so here goes*

SITUATION

1) I'm a non-EU citizen and did my PhD (Life Sciences) at Uni Zurich. I had a B permit (Ausbildung mit Erwerbstaetigkeit) that I renewed annually during my studies.

2) I defended in Sep 2019 and my work contract was terminated then. Still had 3 months left on the B permit. Signed up with RAV. I'm eligible for 400 days of benefits.

3) Applied for a permit extension in Dec 2019 as the B was expiring. Got an L permit (Aufenthalt zur Stellensuche) for 3 months. (I'm assuming they counted the previous 3 months I had on the B towards the 6 month job hunting allowance for students, but I'm not sure.)

4) Still unemployed as of now.

QUESTIONS

1) Is it at all possible to get the L permit extended on the basis of being eligible for 400 days of RAV benefits?

2) Would the L permit be extended if I was doing an internship? (Not BNF-I'm not eligible for it on the L and couldn't start it while the B was still valid because I didn't have approval yet from the ALK)

3) Is there anything I could do to help potential employers? So far I have ZERO responses, and I suspect the L permit is at least partially responsible. Maybe I could go to a lawyer and get some kind of certificate saying that the employers would get help with work permit applications if they hire me or something?

4) I will apply for a permit extension anyway, because I might as well try. What case could I make that would be even remotely convincing? I'm non-violent and speak German (B2.2), but I had to be signed off due to illness for 2 full months while on RAV and I'm worried that the lack of job applications during this time will count against me. Or maybe they take pity if I plead that I couldn't take advantage of the full time period given? Thoughts?

5) What's the procedure if they deny the extension and I still don't have a job? Any sense appealing? Do I get a grace period to wrap up and leave? At what point would the officials show up with handcuffs?

I have already asked every official I could think of (RAV counselor, migration office, employment office, uni admin) and didn't get a clear answer from anywhere, so I'm hoping to learn from personal experiences on here. Thank you! =)

*PS: I've heard the "just go to Germany" advice already, but as long as I'm still here I'd like to try whatever I can =). Getting married is sadly not an option.

3Wishes 22.02.2020 21:22

Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative
 
Welcome to the Forum. :) I don't have any answers, but have a bump since you posted this in the middle of the night.

NichtsBesonders 23.02.2020 12:06

Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative
 
Unfortunately the 6-month period for job hunting after graduation is not extendable at all. See the last paragraph of 5.1.2 here.

It doesn't matter if you are still entitled to X days of unemployment benefits. Non-EU L/B permits always have a purpose of stay attached to them and cannot be extended if that purpose doesn't hold anymore. During your studies the purpose was education (with allowed work). That doesn't hold anymore since your studies have been completed.
Now your purpose of stay is looking for a job after graduation from a Swiss university, and the law and its established interpretation say that you cannot stay for longer than 6 months after finishing your studies with this purpose.

The entitlement to RAV benefits would matter if you held a normal B permit for work purposes ("mit Erwerbstätigkeit", so the purpose of stay would be gainful employment) and an open one at that (i.e. without any restriction on changing employers).

kngavl 23.02.2020 12:20

Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RinRaman (Post 3150279)
5) What's the procedure if they deny the extension and I still don't have a job? Any sense appealing? Do I get a grace period to wrap up and leave? At what point would the officials show up with handcuffs?

Do nationals from your country of origin require tourist visas to stay in Switzerland? If not (Canada/USA nationals etc.), you will automatically be placed on a tourist status upon the expiry of your L permit valid for the generally 3 months.

If you do require a visa as a tourist, then I am not sure what is the procedure but generally I've heard of "grace periods" for these matters.

RinRaman 23.02.2020 17:35

Thank you! =) I've been visiting it for years but it didn't occur to me to join until my own situation became desperate =P

Quote:

Originally Posted by kngavl (Post 3150546)
Do nationals from your country of origin require tourist visas to stay in Switzerland? If not (Canada/USA nationals etc.), you will automatically be placed on a tourist status upon the expiry of your L permit valid for the generally 3 months.

If you do require a visa as a tourist, then I am not sure what is the procedure but generally I've heard of "grace periods" for these matters.

Yes, I would require visa for Switzerland. Good to know I'll have some time to wrap up if things go south, allows me to focus right now on trying to make a miracle!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NichtsBesonders (Post 3150543)
Unfortunately the 6-month period for job hunting after graduation is not extendable at all. See the last paragraph of 5.1.2 here.

It doesn't matter if you are still entitled to X days of unemployment benefits. Non-EU L/B permits always have a purpose of stay attached to them and cannot be extended if that purpose doesn't hold anymore. During your studies the purpose was education (with allowed work). That doesn't hold anymore since your studies have been completed.
Now your purpose of stay is looking for a job after graduation from a Swiss university, and the law and its established interpretation say that you cannot stay for longer than 6 months after finishing your studies with this purpose.

The entitlement to RAV benefits would matter if you held a normal B permit for work purposes ("mit Erwerbstätigkeit", so the purpose of stay would be gainful employment) and an open one at that (i.e. without any restriction on changing employers).

Ah, shoot, that's not very encouraging. Thanks for linking the document, though. I did hear of a case where arguing the RAV angle actually worked, so I will try it anyway, although that wasn't in Zurich.

NichtsBesonders 23.02.2020 21:29

Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RinRaman (Post 3150618)
Ah, shoot, that's not very encouraging. Thanks for linking the document, though. I did hear of a case where arguing the RAV angle actually worked, so I will try it anyway, although that wasn't in Zurich.

Oh by all means do try it, I wish you best of luck! Those are only federal guidelines, there is a non-zero probability that you can persuade the canton and it will get waved through by SEM, bureaucracy also makes mistakes in your favor sometimes (though, sadly, rarely :))

Regarding the grace period it usually works this way: you can talk to Migrationsamt right before your permit expires and they usually will give you another 2-3 weeks to wrap things up and depart. They'll stamp a C or D visa in your passport for that so you can depart the Schengen area without a valid permit.
If you don't do that and let your permit expire without deregistering, they'll send you a letter by registered post ordering you to leave within 2 weeks and containing a card that will be stamped and taken from you on the border to confirm and record your departure. If you ignore that I guess that's when the guys with handcuffs come in :)

Axa 24.02.2020 11:19

Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RinRaman (Post 3150279)
QUESTIONS

3) Is there anything I could do to help potential employers? So far I have ZERO responses, and I suspect the L permit is at least partially responsible. Maybe I could go to a lawyer and get some kind of certificate saying that the employers would get help with work permit applications if they hire me or something?

Not sure if it's worth. If the company doesn't hire foreigners regularly and HR people are not used to get new B permits, it would be improbable they change the way the company is run because of a letter.

Next month there's the largest job fair for technical people at ETH, good luck https://www.polymesse.ch/en/


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