Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.02.2020, 03:33
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
RinRaman has no particular reputation at present
Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternatives?

*I've read a lot of posts about permit issues but nothing recent fits my exact situation and I know the laws have changed in the last few years, so here goes*

SITUATION

1) I'm a non-EU citizen and did my PhD (Life Sciences) at Uni Zurich. I had a B permit (Ausbildung mit Erwerbstaetigkeit) that I renewed annually during my studies.

2) I defended in Sep 2019 and my work contract was terminated then. Still had 3 months left on the B permit. Signed up with RAV. I'm eligible for 400 days of benefits.

3) Applied for a permit extension in Dec 2019 as the B was expiring. Got an L permit (Aufenthalt zur Stellensuche) for 3 months. (I'm assuming they counted the previous 3 months I had on the B towards the 6 month job hunting allowance for students, but I'm not sure.)

4) Still unemployed as of now.

QUESTIONS

1) Is it at all possible to get the L permit extended on the basis of being eligible for 400 days of RAV benefits?

2) Would the L permit be extended if I was doing an internship? (Not BNF-I'm not eligible for it on the L and couldn't start it while the B was still valid because I didn't have approval yet from the ALK)

3) Is there anything I could do to help potential employers? So far I have ZERO responses, and I suspect the L permit is at least partially responsible. Maybe I could go to a lawyer and get some kind of certificate saying that the employers would get help with work permit applications if they hire me or something?

4) I will apply for a permit extension anyway, because I might as well try. What case could I make that would be even remotely convincing? I'm non-violent and speak German (B2.2), but I had to be signed off due to illness for 2 full months while on RAV and I'm worried that the lack of job applications during this time will count against me. Or maybe they take pity if I plead that I couldn't take advantage of the full time period given? Thoughts?

5) What's the procedure if they deny the extension and I still don't have a job? Any sense appealing? Do I get a grace period to wrap up and leave? At what point would the officials show up with handcuffs?

I have already asked every official I could think of (RAV counselor, migration office, employment office, uni admin) and didn't get a clear answer from anywhere, so I'm hoping to learn from personal experiences on here. Thank you! =)

*PS: I've heard the "just go to Germany" advice already, but as long as I'm still here I'd like to try whatever I can =). Getting married is sadly not an option.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.02.2020, 21:22
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,157
Groaned at 88 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 18,905 Times in 8,421 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative

Welcome to the Forum. I don't have any answers, but have a bump since you posted this in the middle of the night.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23.02.2020, 12:06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 397
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 384 Times in 195 Posts
NichtsBesonders has earned some respectNichtsBesonders has earned some respect
Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative

Unfortunately the 6-month period for job hunting after graduation is not extendable at all. See the last paragraph of 5.1.2 here.

It doesn't matter if you are still entitled to X days of unemployment benefits. Non-EU L/B permits always have a purpose of stay attached to them and cannot be extended if that purpose doesn't hold anymore. During your studies the purpose was education (with allowed work). That doesn't hold anymore since your studies have been completed.
Now your purpose of stay is looking for a job after graduation from a Swiss university, and the law and its established interpretation say that you cannot stay for longer than 6 months after finishing your studies with this purpose.

The entitlement to RAV benefits would matter if you held a normal B permit for work purposes ("mit Erwerbstätigkeit", so the purpose of stay would be gainful employment) and an open one at that (i.e. without any restriction on changing employers).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23.02.2020, 21:29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 397
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 384 Times in 195 Posts
NichtsBesonders has earned some respectNichtsBesonders has earned some respect
Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative

Quote:
View Post
Ah, shoot, that's not very encouraging. Thanks for linking the document, though. I did hear of a case where arguing the RAV angle actually worked, so I will try it anyway, although that wasn't in Zurich.
Oh by all means do try it, I wish you best of luck! Those are only federal guidelines, there is a non-zero probability that you can persuade the canton and it will get waved through by SEM, bureaucracy also makes mistakes in your favor sometimes (though, sadly, rarely )

Regarding the grace period it usually works this way: you can talk to Migrationsamt right before your permit expires and they usually will give you another 2-3 weeks to wrap things up and depart. They'll stamp a C or D visa in your passport for that so you can depart the Schengen area without a valid permit.
If you don't do that and let your permit expire without deregistering, they'll send you a letter by registered post ordering you to leave within 2 weeks and containing a card that will be stamped and taken from you on the border to confirm and record your departure. If you ignore that I guess that's when the guys with handcuffs come in
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NichtsBesonders for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 23.02.2020, 17:35
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
RinRaman has no particular reputation at present
Thank you! =) I've been visiting it for years but it didn't occur to me to join until my own situation became desperate =P

Quote:
View Post
Do nationals from your country of origin require tourist visas to stay in Switzerland? If not (Canada/USA nationals etc.), you will automatically be placed on a tourist status upon the expiry of your L permit valid for the generally 3 months.

If you do require a visa as a tourist, then I am not sure what is the procedure but generally I've heard of "grace periods" for these matters.
Yes, I would require visa for Switzerland. Good to know I'll have some time to wrap up if things go south, allows me to focus right now on trying to make a miracle!

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately the 6-month period for job hunting after graduation is not extendable at all. See the last paragraph of 5.1.2 here.

It doesn't matter if you are still entitled to X days of unemployment benefits. Non-EU L/B permits always have a purpose of stay attached to them and cannot be extended if that purpose doesn't hold anymore. During your studies the purpose was education (with allowed work). That doesn't hold anymore since your studies have been completed.
Now your purpose of stay is looking for a job after graduation from a Swiss university, and the law and its established interpretation say that you cannot stay for longer than 6 months after finishing your studies with this purpose.

The entitlement to RAV benefits would matter if you held a normal B permit for work purposes ("mit Erwerbstätigkeit", so the purpose of stay would be gainful employment) and an open one at that (i.e. without any restriction on changing employers).
Ah, shoot, that's not very encouraging. Thanks for linking the document, though. I did hear of a case where arguing the RAV angle actually worked, so I will try it anyway, although that wasn't in Zurich.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.02.2020 at 10:44. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23.02.2020, 12:20
kngavl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bärn
Posts: 714
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 774 Times in 325 Posts
kngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative

Quote:
View Post
5) What's the procedure if they deny the extension and I still don't have a job? Any sense appealing? Do I get a grace period to wrap up and leave? At what point would the officials show up with handcuffs?
Do nationals from your country of origin require tourist visas to stay in Switzerland? If not (Canada/USA nationals etc.), you will automatically be placed on a tourist status upon the expiry of your L permit valid for the generally 3 months.

If you do require a visa as a tourist, then I am not sure what is the procedure but generally I've heard of "grace periods" for these matters.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24.02.2020, 11:19
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,309
Groaned at 40 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 4,439 Times in 2,049 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Non EU-PhD at Swiss uni-on RAV with a job seeker's L permit-Extension/alternative

Quote:
View Post
QUESTIONS

3) Is there anything I could do to help potential employers? So far I have ZERO responses, and I suspect the L permit is at least partially responsible. Maybe I could go to a lawyer and get some kind of certificate saying that the employers would get help with work permit applications if they hire me or something?
Not sure if it's worth. If the company doesn't hire foreigners regularly and HR people are not used to get new B permits, it would be improbable they change the way the company is run because of a letter.

Next month there's the largest job fair for technical people at ETH, good luck https://www.polymesse.ch/en/
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US subletters have wrong permit for Swiss Caution - alternatives? Salad Days Housing in general 10 28.10.2017 15:14
Alternatives to Swiss B permit not arriving in time? silverburn Permits/visas/government 4 29.10.2011 13:08
Non-EU17 Member Swiss work permit seeker Sunreisenden Permits/visas/government 13 05.04.2011 17:10
Permit Extension for Masters students from Swiss Universities quarkLore Permits/visas/government 2 05.09.2010 14:09
How to get B permit for asylum seeker?? menzingen Permits/visas/government 7 22.05.2010 10:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0