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Old 17.04.2020, 10:59
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Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

Hi all,

I recently got a job offer for a temporary position in a big company. This company hires through recruiting agencies for its temporary positions. The recruiter initially wanted to terminate the procedure because of my permit and non-EU nationality (I am on the fake B permit given to students and postdocs in CH right now!). Two weeks passed since I tried to reach out to the interviewers and inform them about the 2011 law at the end of this message. Finally, few days ago the recruiter contacted me and said they will look into this more carefully. However he said they are aware of this law and the problem is that as a recruiting company they cannot benefit from it! I told him that the job is of a highly scientific/technical nature and it should be fine. He is now looking into this, but did not promise anything and said do not raise my hopes!

Do you have any information on this? Are there specific entities who cannot benefit from this law? The law itself does not talk about it and I wonder where more information can be found. I can relay any tips and links to the recruiter. Thank you very much.

Best Regards,
SMHH

---------------------------------------------------
In 2011, Non-European graduates of Swiss Universities are put in the same category as EU and Swiss citizens regarding the employment. Please look at the Art. 21, Paragraph 1, and 3 of the following link:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ex.html#id-ni5

The only condition is to provide a letter that describes the economic/scientific values that they bring to the companies.
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Old 17.04.2020, 11:10
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

Just to be clear, when you applied for the job, did you advise that you actually had a B permit?

It may be that the agency has a contract with the company to ONLY supply staff who have full and unconditional work and residency rights within Switzerland and that engaging anything other than the B or C permits will be a breach of their contract?

If you actually interviewed with the company directly and received the offer from them, have you followed up with your (potential) hiring leader?

Last edited by smileygreebins; 17.04.2020 at 12:42.
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Old 17.04.2020, 11:28
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

I suppose it is up to the employer; if they wish to put the time and effort into seeking a normal permit for you. Particularly for a temporary position. Then it will be up to the Canton to decide if they want to issue you a normal permit for a temporary position.

It really depends on the employer, but even if they do agree to the expense and delay, the Canton could still turn them down.
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Old 17.04.2020, 11:31
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

Unlucky but for temporary / interim staff and triangular contracts it's a bit different. The placement agency is only allowed to hire foreigners with the right to work and who are allowed to change employers. It does say exceptions are possible to protect economic interests so maybe try convincing them of this.

See below the Law on personnel placement and interim hiring (linking in French as you are in Renens, no English version)

https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...index.html#a21

Art. 21 Travailleurs étrangers en Suisse
1 Le bailleur de services n’engage en Suisse que des étrangers qui sont admis en vue de l’exercice d’une activité lucrative et autorisés à changer d’emploi.
2 Des exceptions sont possibles pour protéger des intérêts économiques particuliers.

The intention is to avoid recruiting from abroad for short / temporary assignments (which would limit the risk of the imported person being on Swiss unemployment insurance at the end of the contract) and encourage the hiring of autochthonous unemployed people who are available immediately for these types of contracts. This also applies to EU/EFTA citizens not previously working in Switzerland. The law also forbids foreign placement agencies with no presence in Switzerland from placing personnel in Switzerland. Since you're already here it might be different.

Last edited by qwertz; 17.04.2020 at 11:45.
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Old 17.04.2020, 11:38
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

My current line manager wrote that kind of letter for the cantonal authorities for my hiring. Albeit, it was a long term hire. We need this guy, the company may be in troubles, we may fire other people if we don't hire him, lots of hyperboles and it worked. The challenge is finding that person in the company willing to write that letter. With a bit of luck, no EU candidate shows up and someone may find the motivation.

Finding a job and signing a contract is a frustrating task that requires endurance. I understand the motivation to call the student B permit like that. But come on, that permit is for salaried students quite probably payed by SNF funded by federal taxes.
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Old 17.04.2020, 16:33
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Just to be clear, when you applied for the job, did you advise that you actually had a B permit?

It may be that the agency has a contract with the company to ONLY supply staff who have full and unconditional work and residency rights within Switzerland and that engaging anything other than the B or C permits will be a breach of their contract?

If you actually interviewed with the company directly and received the offer from them, have you followed up with your (potential) hiring leader?
Thank you for your reply. The recruiter asked for the scan of my current permit before sending my application to the company. Apparently he did not realize it back then. In fact, the recruiter terminated the process and it was only after the interviewers at the company decided to move forward that he called me and said he will look into this. Not sure about their mutual agreements, but considering the way this has evolved, it is unlikely to be the case.

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I suppose it is up to the employer; if they wish to put the time and effort into seeking a normal permit for you. Particularly for a temporary position. Then it will be up to the Canton to decide if they want to issue you a normal permit for a temporary position.

It really depends on the employer, but even if they do agree to the expense and delay, the Canton could still turn them down.
Thank you. I think the big misunderstanding in this regard is that there is a lot of time and cost to be spent. I am ready to pay the expenses (writing a letter), and it takes between 2 to 6 weeks (for my friends and colleagues whom I know) which is shorter than most notice periods.

Personally, if I select a person out of ~100 applicants (likely to be more), then I will move forward since I am not doing something illegal and I have invested time, money, and energy in finding the right person. If it is illegal, then the story is different.

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Unlucky but for temporary / interim staff and triangular contracts it's a bit different. The placement agency is only allowed to hire foreigners with the right to work and who are allowed to change employers. It does say exceptions are possible to protect economic interests so maybe try convincing them of this.

See below the Law on personnel placement and interim hiring (linking in French as you are in Renens, no English version)

https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...index.html#a21

Art. 21 Travailleurs étrangers en Suisse
1 Le bailleur de services n’engage en Suisse que des étrangers qui sont admis en vue de l’exercice d’une activité lucrative et autorisés à changer d’emploi.
2 Des exceptions sont possibles pour protéger des intérêts économiques particuliers.

The intention is to avoid recruiting from abroad for short / temporary assignments (which would limit the risk of the imported person being on Swiss unemployment insurance at the end of the contract) and encourage the hiring of autochthonous unemployed people who are available immediately for these types of contracts. This also applies to EU/EFTA citizens not previously working in Switzerland. The law also forbids foreign placement agencies with no presence in Switzerland from placing personnel in Switzerland. Since you're already here it might be different.
Thank you for the link. I think this is still talking about the general situation and not someone who has obtained a degree in CH and already lives here at the time of offer. Non-EU students are already eligible for 6 months of unemployment insurance. So, the potential cost is already there.

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My current line manager wrote that kind of letter for the cantonal authorities for my hiring. Albeit, it was a long term hire. We need this guy, the company may be in troubles, we may fire other people if we don't hire him, lots of hyperboles and it worked. The challenge is finding that person in the company willing to write that letter. With a bit of luck, no EU candidate shows up and someone may find the motivation.

Finding a job and signing a contract is a frustrating task that requires endurance. I understand the motivation to call the student B permit like that. But come on, that permit is for salaried students quite probably payed by SNF funded by federal taxes.
Thanks. I have A LOT of friends who found their first job (both temporary and permanent) after their graduation and the letter that you are talking about was the only thing on top of their contract to get their permit.

I am glad that you understand the frustration.

Fake permit is what several companies called it that way. Not directly, but they said we need to get a real permit for you which means the current one is FAKE!

To be clear, this permit is not given to all students, only non-EU. Even postdocs get this type of permit. My current function is scientific assistant, and it is written in my responsibilities that I should train other PhD students and manage projects. I am training others in fact, but my permit says I am the one who is being trained!

Putting this aside, why do EU students directly get B permit? I understand about the mutual agreements between CH and EU. But this should encourage CH to fill in student positions with EU students as much as it can. Otherwise, bringing two students, one from India and one from Italy here, then telling the Indian one that you are being trained and the Italian one that you are working gainfully is something I can only interpret in a negative way.

Just to mention: 1) I am grateful for the funding and opportunity provided by funding offices. The above point does not mean that I am not. 2) One may say that I should not complain because I decided to come here at the end. This is not valid as I did not know this point even in the middle of my PhD studies. Nobody gives such information to the students at Swiss Embassies. Naturally, students think that they will be treated all the same regardless of their nationality, gender, etc. If I knew, I would have seriously considered other options. I am know giving this piece of information to any student who is asking me for advice. If they want to have a fair competition in the job market after their graduation, it is wise to look elsewhere. Again, I love many things about CH and Swiss people and I believe this will be addressed one day like other issues. I have been living here for almost 8 years and it feels like home to me now. The reason I am writing this is to bring it into light and hopefully see it fixed one day.

Last edited by roegner; 17.04.2020 at 17:12. Reason: Please use the multiquote button? Next to the quote button
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Old 17.04.2020, 17:14
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

The thing is non-EU graduates of Swiss universities don't have full working rights / access to the Swiss labor market per se (regardless whether the priority rules for hiring are waived for 6 months).

Permission must be asked for a change from student B to full working L/B and non-EUs have this done by their employers (placement agency in this case).

The law on personnel placement and interim hiring states that only foreigners with already acquired and existing working rights may be hired by placement agencies.

Different story if the contract came directly from the company and not via the agency.
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Old 17.04.2020, 17:25
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

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The thing is non-EU graduates of Swiss universities don't have full working rights / access to the Swiss labor market per se (regardless whether the priority rules for hiring are waived for 6 months).
This thread made me wonder whether I correctly understand the rules. Are non-EU grads only on "equal footing" for the 6 months following graduation, and after that time they're back to "regular" non-EU rules?

OP says they've been here 8 years so presumably the 6 months after graduation is long gone and maybe they've been on a different kind of contract that doesn't easily convert?
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Old 17.04.2020, 17:33
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

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This thread made me wonder whether I correctly understand the rules. Are non-EU grads only on "equal footing" for the 6 months following graduation, and after that time they're back to "regular" non-EU rules?

OP says they've been here 8 years so presumably the 6 months after graduation is long gone and maybe they've been on a different kind of contract that doesn't easily convert?
Yes, that's correct. The "equal footing" only applies for the first 6 months after graduation. After that, they revert to coming under the usual non-EU hiring criteria.

Non-EU students can study here for a maximum of 8 years so he could have just graduated.
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Old 17.04.2020, 17:37
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Re: Non-EU work permit by recruiting agency

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This thread made me wonder whether I correctly understand the rules. Are non-EU grads only on "equal footing" for the 6 months following graduation, and after that time they're back to "regular" non-EU rules?
The 6 months equal footing period runs out as soon as the L permit specifically given to them after graduation for the purpose of finding a job expires. After which they are asked to justify their stay in Switzerland (i.e. normal non-EU admission rules).

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OP says they've been here 8 years so presumably the 6 months after graduation is long gone and maybe they've been on a different kind of contract that doesn't easily convert?
I suspect OP has been here for 8 years to study for a PhD and possibly a postdoc position afterwards and currently has a valid student B permit (likely until the autumn), and may not have technically graduated yet.
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