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Old 13.05.2020, 13:48
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Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimation?

Hi there! Since I last posted, I've gotten married and been enjoying my life with a family-reunification B permit. I just got a job offer with an international organization in Geneva, and was told I need to switch to a Carte de Légitimation. I can't find any clear information anywhere, even on the official sites, about whether I can still qualify for facilitated naturalization while holding a CDL.
I'm currently entering my 5th year of living in Switzerland, the first 2 years of which were as a grad student. I've heard conflicting information on whether these years count (my friend's lawyer confirmed that it could count for her) but even more concerned about whether the time spent with a CDL will count.
If anyone has any knowledge of a similar situation, it would be greatly appreciated...
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Old 13.05.2020, 13:59
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

If you have a cdl, your employer and you have different tax obligations. Depending on your country’s of origin of course. You would be outside the AVS system as well. No 1ere pillar, no chomage, health insurance rules different.

I know people that do work for such organisations with their permits, but are obligated to pay taxes and social costs.

There are few advantages from going from a resident status to a cdl.

If you are planning on staying indefinitely then stay with a permit.

Edited to add: Forget about natuaralisation with a cdl. Impossible.

Last edited by bowlie; 13.05.2020 at 14:18.
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Old 13.05.2020, 14:27
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

I would say it is possible as facilitated due to marriage is also possible when you are abroad.

So lets look into the law. Art. 33 SCA https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a33 defines which stays count toward the residency requirement for facilitated naturalization:

Quote:
1 The length of residence in Switzerland is calculated based on residence as evidenced by the following residence documents:

a. a residence [permit B] or permanent residence permit [permit C];
b. temporary admission [permit F]; half of the period of residence is credited; or
c. a legitimation card or comparable residence document [Ci permit] issued by the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs.
Permit L does not count. Permit B as a student does count.

See also SEM Citizenship Handbook Chapter 4.
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home...rgerrecht.html

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Forget about natuaralisation with a cdl. Impossible.
Wrong. Possible.
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Old 13.05.2020, 14:54
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

Thanks @aSwissInTheUS! I did realize that no permits were specified for a spouse, just amount of time residing in Switzerland. This is very reassuring.

@bowlie I also do see your point about the tax obligations and complications surrounding AVS as well. I saw that some people were able to keep paying the AVS during the duration of their IO contract via a quarterly invoice. Guessing that would be a good thing to do as I plan to stay in Switzerland indefinitely.

I have also asked the organization's HR for help in clarifying this as well. If I hear anything different from them, I'll add it here in case someone else is in the same boat
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Old 13.05.2020, 15:23
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

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Hi there! Since I last posted, I've gotten married and been enjoying my life with a family-reunification B permit...
I'm currently entering my 5th year of living in Switzerland, the first 2 years of which were as a grad student...
Keep in mind for facilitated naturalization you need to be married for 3 years and living in CH for 5. You also have to be living together with no intent to separate, and will sign paperwork to that effect.

If you married after your last post in 2018, that means you'll have to wait until at least March 2021 to apply. However, nothing wrong with gathering info now regarding what you'll need to do and how it works.
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Old 13.05.2020, 15:38
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

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Keep in mind for facilitated naturalization you need to be married for 3 years and living in CH for 5. You also have to be living together with no intent to separate, and will sign paperwork to that effect.

If you married after your last post in 2018, that means you'll have to wait until at least March 2021 to apply. However, nothing wrong with gathering info now regarding what you'll need to do and how it works.
Yes, I'm fully aware of it. I entered Switzerland in September 2016 and got married spring 2018, so I should be eligible for facilitated naturalization in September 2021. My husband and I are pretty much attached at the hip so shouldn't be a problem to sign that paperwork
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Old 13.05.2020, 18:10
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

There is one caveat you, or anyone referring to this thread, should be aware of though. You do not mention if your spouse was swiss at the time of marriage or was naturalised afterwards. In case of the latter, you could not get naturalisation in that case.
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Old 13.05.2020, 19:02
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

Hi runningdeer, good point. My husband is Swiss and has lived here his whole life.

Unfortunately the organization's HR informed me that the CDL is mandatory for the job and that as far as they are aware, this will not count towards my qualification for Swiss citizenship. Guess we're calling the OCPM & SEM tomorrow to clarify...
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Old 13.05.2020, 21:48
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

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Hi runningdeer, good point. My husband is Swiss and has lived here his whole life.

Unfortunately the organization's HR informed me that the CDL is mandatory for the job and that as far as they are aware, this will not count towards my qualification for Swiss citizenship. Guess we're calling the OCPM & SEM tomorrow to clarify...
Take a look at the link posted by ASitUS above. Article 33 says that the CdL years do count for facilitated.

AFAIK you can remain on the CdL the whole time and don't need to quit the job. That's because you don't have to have a C permit when you go through facilitated. Once you're naturalized, your agency will request a different CdL that is specific to Swiss citizens.
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Old 13.05.2020, 22:21
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

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Take a look at the link posted by ASitUS above. Article 33 says that the CdL years do count for facilitated.

AFAIK you can remain on the CdL the whole time and don't need to quit the job. That's because you don't have to have a C permit when you go through facilitated. Once you're naturalized, your agency will request a different CdL that is specific to Swiss citizens.
I did read through the Federal Act on Swiss Citizenship tonight and it confirms everything the two of you said. I'm pretty sure the HR at this organization is not aware of it because they're more used to handling ordinary naturalization which requires the C permit.

Good to know that there is a different CDL for Swiss citizens as well. Maybe this job offer will work out after all

In any case, I've decided to consult an immigration lawyer as well, just to be sure. There's a whole other list of complications regarding tax and welfare that may complicate my situation. Like how the SAM gave us a health insurance subsidy for 2020 based on our income levels from 2018, or receiving a government-subsidized salary from my current employer due to COVID-19 related work hour reductions... If you guys know anyone good, I'd welcome your suggestions!

Also, would it be a good idea to continue making voluntary AVS payments during this period? I saw someone on this forum paid for it quarterly via invoice, but they had a temporary contract. Mine is "temporary" for 2.5 years so not sure if that counts.
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Old 13.05.2020, 22:58
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

If on CdL and not swiss, I don't think you can voluntary pay into AVS. Further, as you are married to an AVS earner presumably, it makes little sense as you are covered through your spouse and will get the higher married rente when retired.
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Old 14.05.2020, 15:37
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Re: Is facilitated naturalization via marriage still possible with Carte de Légitimat

I am back with an answer: I can indeed apply for facilitated naturalization while holding the carte de légitimation! Plus my years on a student B permit and with the CDL will count towards the 5 year requirement.

This was confirmed by the OCPM Secteur naturalisation via email today - they actually got back to my online form request within 8 minutes, and followed up with a clarification again in another 10 minutes. Probably the fastest I've ever gotten an answer from the OCPM

Hopefully this will also help out anyone else who's in a similar situation as me in the future.
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