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Old 17.06.2020, 14:41
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Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

Hello,

I've been married to a Swiss citizen for more than 4 years now, so I'm on my 5th B permit.

My understanding is that my next permit (once the one I have expires) should be a C permit.

Do I have to apply for it or will I get it automatically?

If I have to apply for it, how much in advance should I do it?

Another question: If my wife and I, although still together, have talked about separation, will an imminent divorce represent a problem on my obtention of a C permit?

Thank you so much in advance for your time and answers.
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Old 17.06.2020, 18:22
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

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Another question: If my wife and I, although still together, have talked about separation, will an imminent divorce represent a problem on my obtention of a C permit?
Yes. You are typically required to make a declaration that you are living in a real marriage with no intention to separate before getting a marriage-based C permit. People who divorce in less than 3 years after getting a C permit by virtue of marriage are subject to scrutiny and commonly have their C permits revoked.
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Old 17.06.2020, 18:36
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

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Yes. You are typically required to make a declaration that you are living in a real marriage with no intention to separate before getting a marriage-based C permit.
This. Here is what my C permit request form includes (translated from German). You must check yes or no to each question, and the spouse must sign as well:
Quote:
1 - Do you live together with your husband/wife in the same household?
2 - Do you and your husband/wife maintain a conjugal relationship?
3 - Do you intend to separate or divorce?
Below the signature lines is this text:
Quote:
Pursuant to Art. 90 of the Federal Act on Foreign Nationals you are obliged to cooperate in establishing the facts of the case and to provide truthful information.
If you have your own job, can fully support yourself, are well integrated, speak the language, etc. then you can try to apply for C permit on your own without your spouse.
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Old 17.06.2020, 21:23
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

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If you have your own job, can fully support yourself, are well integrated, speak the language, etc. then you can try to apply for C permit on your own without your spouse.
I do have a job and fulfill the minimum language requirements. I think something important that I didn't mention is that I'm a Non-EU or USA/Canada national.

Since we are not really divorcing, we have just questioned the future of our relationship, I think my wife will sing the application. We're still together, our marriage is real and we do love each other. But I can somehow foresee that we might separate the same year that I get the C permit, or a couple of years after, and I wonder if that would be a headache for me considering I would like to stay in Switzerland permanently.

How much in advance before my B permit expires should I apply for the C permit?
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Old 17.06.2020, 21:30
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

Just save yourself the headache and apply for an early non-EU C permit based on integration (read the VINTA thread). Looks like you fulfill the criteria for it anyway and you won't be risking losing your C permit if you end up separating in the 3 following years.

You can apply for an early C as soon as you can apply for the extension of your 5th B permit (in Zurich that's 3 months before expiration, don't know if that varies by canton).
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Old 17.06.2020, 22:04
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

Thanks for the advise!

I just wonder if I'm still married if it wouldn't look dodgy to them that I'm applying through VINTA instead of submitting the other form.
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Old 17.06.2020, 22:15
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

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People who divorce in less than 3 years after getting a C permit by virtue of marriage are subject to scrutiny and commonly have their C permits revoked.

Do you know that with certainty, have you seen people getting their C permits revoked?

According to this site, divorce shouldn't be a problem for keeping your C permit: https://www.ch.ch/en/right-to-reside...th-or-divorce/

Not questioning you, just wanting more information :-)
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Old 20.06.2020, 15:08
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Applying for a C permit after 5 years of marriage with intention of divorce.

Hello. I will have my 5th marriage anniversary in October. I'm Non-EU married to a Swiss woman.

I've been on a B permit since I got married. My wife says now she wants to separate.

I should apply for a C- Permit with a form that contains the following questions and needs signature from my wife:

1 - Do you live together with your husband/wife in the same household?
2 - Do you and your husband/wife maintain a conjugal relationship?
3 - Do you intend to separate or divorce?

She won't lie, so she'll state we'll separate (our marriage was not staged, btw). Will I lose all my chances of getting a C Permit, lose my job and be kicked out of the country?

Somebody suggested that I should apply through VINTA and not through marriage, but the VINTA form says clearly that if I'm married I should use the other form. In addition, it contains the same questions listed above, so I don't know if that would make a difference anyway.

Anybody with a similar experience?
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Old 20.06.2020, 17:00
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

You should not be kicked out of the country. You'll just get a new B permit instead of a marriage-based C.
Then when you do separate/divorce, you'll need to apply for your own B permit but it should be easy because after 3 years of marriage to Swiss you have a legal right to keep residing in Switzerland (but only if you fulfil the integration criteria which are basically having a job or wealth to support yourself and knowledge of your canton's local language). See Art. 50a AIG.

Don't pay much attention to what your VINTA form says about using the other form if you're married to a Swiss because it's just general common case advice for people that are in a stable marriage which is not your case.
It's not forbidden to take the VINTA route if you're married to a Swiss (about to divorce or not), it's just less hassle and paperwork for you and the authorities to go the marriage way if the marriage is in order.

Also, please do not take ch.ch for legal advice, it's just a helpful site with some simplified advice applying to the most common situations which yours isn't. While we're at that, don't take my words as legal advice too
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Old 20.06.2020, 18:40
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

If I do submit the application for a C permit in October (either VINTA or a regular one for spouses) stating that we will separate, will that automatically result in rejection of my application or there are even small chances that because of integration I am granted a C permit?
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Old 20.06.2020, 18:43
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

And thank you of course for the answers already provided! I appreciate it!
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Old 21.06.2020, 17:54
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

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If I do submit the application for a C permit in October (either VINTA or a regular one for spouses) stating that we will separate, will that automatically result in rejection of my application or there are even small chances that because of integration I am granted a C permit?
There's no way to know in advance. If you use the VINTA form then it's clear you want your own C permit not based on marriage, regardless of what boxes she ticks. I've seen on EF where people have been granted independent C permits before.

To improve your chances, I suggest you have all your paperwork 100% in order so there are no other questions. Get your social help declaration, Betreibungs register extract, proof of language certificate, copy of your permanent job contract, etc. all ready before you apply.
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Old 22.06.2020, 07:49
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Re: Upgrade from B to C permit after 5 years of marriage.

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If you use the VINTA form then it's clear you want your own C permit not based on marriage, regardless of what boxes she ticks.
Thanks! Do you think that would be a red flag for them or that it somehow would play against me?

Sorry that I ask redundant questions, with all this uncertainty I want to get feedback from people that might have some more experience or knowledge so that I really do the best application possible.
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