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Old 29.07.2020, 13:59
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Adoption / Bringing our (10 years old) nephew to live and study with us

Hi All,


I saw that there are some post regarding adoption, but I did not find sufficient information to answer my question.


My wife and I would like to adopt our newphew. He is 10 years old and he is from Mongolia. The kid’s mother, for reasons that do not come to this post, could not take care of him. My wife and her mother (the grandmother of the child) have been taking care of him all those years.
After speaking a lot with the grandmother and the kid, we have agreed to start the adoption process. The mother of the kid is happy to give him in adoption knowing that she cannot take care of him and that we would really take care of him.


We have checked with the adoption centrum here in Zurich and it is not as easy as we though. Besides the costs, the time and the complexity of the process (no common process between Mongolia and Switzerland), there is a risk that the adoption would not be accepted has they might determine that for the kids integration is better for him to stay with the grandmother.
So, checking further, we are wondering if there is any way he could come here to study in the public school, and then later start the adoption process, which would have more chances of success given that by that time the kid should be integrated and he would have more to say regarding this process.


I found through the forum some other people that took care of a child education while not being the legal parents of the child and I hope someone can give us some orintation of how that can be done.
1) Do you fisrt need to have the kid accepted by a school and then submit that information for a VISA?


2) Is it possible to register our newphew with us so he can attend the public school. If yes, we just apply for a tourist visa and then proceed?


3) - Any law / regulation / specialist that you can suggest me to read / meet.
4) - Any other legal consideration like becoming “legal tutors”? how that usually work?


Thank you very much and have a nice day.
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Old 29.07.2020, 14:18
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

Can you not do the adoption process in Mongolia? Would Swiss authorities accept/recognise this?
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Old 29.07.2020, 14:28
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

OP,
I have no idea whether the Swiss authorities will recognise the adoption in Mongolia but I wish you good luck!

Given the situation - you're probably the only relatives able to take care of him long term, it might work out. I suppose the grandmother is getting old and you have a very good reason to start the adoption process.
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:03
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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Can you not do the adoption process in Mongolia? Would Swiss authorities accept/recognise this?

No, as we are residents in Switzerland we are obligated to follow the international process.


The lady in the adoption center told us about a case where the adoption was done directly on the country of the kid, took the kid here to Switzerland, the kid studied for less than a year and then it was not recognized as a valid adoption and the kid had to go back while the process was started from scratch.



I don't want to image how traumatic that could be for the child...
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:07
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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OP,
I have no idea whether the Swiss authorities will recognise the adoption in Mongolia but I wish you good luck!

Given the situation - you're probably the only relatives able to take care of him long term, it might work out. I suppose the grandmother is getting old and you have a very good reason to start the adoption process.

Thank you for your wishes!


Even though I agree with you I am uncertain what both countries would have to say. I think the best is for the kid to come as soon as possible (so it would be easier to integrate) and then do the paperwork.


Starting with the paperwork can mean
1) wait (at least) one year
2) Pay 10k on paperwork between countries

3) have the chance of having all rejected



That's why I am now interested in exploring the possibility of bringing him under any valid legal status to study and then later adopt him.


Any ideas about minors family members studying in Switzerland?
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:14
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

I cannot chip in with much official info, but 2 things: I know a 11yr old nephew of somebody that came here to study here, he actually missed home so much that he went back.

And - how was your wife taking care of him all these years when you, guys, are residents here?

The child might not realize what it would mean to have his grandma and real mom permanently out of the picture. I wish you well but tread carefully.
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:33
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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I cannot chip in with much official info, but 2 things: I know a 11yr old nephew of somebody that came here to study here, he actually missed home so much that he went back.

And - how was your wife taking care of him all these years when you, guys, are residents here?

The child might not realize what it would mean to have his grandma and real mom permanently out of the picture. I wish you well but tread carefully.
Not sure how they managed that since the rules are pretty clear. Only direct descendants or parents/grandparents. Nephews, nieces, cousins not included.

https://www.ch.ch/en/family-reunification-eu-efta

I would have a look here and see what advice any of these can give you regarding the adoption.

https://www.ch.ch/en/adoption/

As for studying here, nope. Unless he is resident here - which means some sort of permit, family reunification or otherwise - he wouldn't be able to attend a public school here. Your only option would likely be a private school and they're very expensive.
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:42
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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Not sure how they managed..
I have no idea but I think a private school with boarding school option applied for him. It was years ago, too. It is irrelevant - the relevant part was, not all kids accept such a big change.
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:55
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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I have no idea but I think a private school with boarding school option applied for him. It was years ago, too. It is irrelevant - the relevant part was, not all kids accept such a big change.
Indeed. If it's an option it might be an idea for the OP to have the child here for a 3 month visit as a tourist just to see what they think of the idea. Assuming they've not been here before of course.

It's a big step for everyone, but the child's input must be taken into account. No good bringing him here if he's going to be unhappy and miserable.
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:58
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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I cannot chip in with much official info, but 2 things: I know a 11yr old nephew of somebody that came here to study here, he actually missed home so much that he went back.

And - how was your wife taking care of him all these years when you, guys, are residents here? carefully.
My wife has been living here in Switzerland for three years, the other 7 years she was in Mongolia.During the last 3 years, we speak very often with the family and we visit whenever possible. Besides that, financial support for the kids education. Obviously, not as much presential care as before



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The child might not realize what it would mean to have his grandma and real mom permanently out of the picture. I wish you well but tread carefully.

I am aware of that and as far as possible we have involve the kid in all the discussions and decisions.


The kid is a mix child and in Mongolia he is always the different one. When he came here, he was amazed of seeing other mix child and seeing a variety of people from different races and backgrounds.



Given that the grandmother is retired and that applying for family reunification visas / residences permit is not very complicated, probably she will stay here an important part of the time to support the kid and ensure he integrates well.





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Not sure how they managed that since the rules are pretty clear. Only direct descendants or parents/grandparents. Nephews, nieces, cousins not included.

https://www.ch.ch/en/family-reunification-eu-efta

I would have a look here and see what advice any of these can give you regarding the adoption.

.


Thanks, I looked in to that and still that did not clarify how is it possible that some people managed, so I wonder if there are other alternatives.


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As for studying here, nope. Unless he is resident here - which means some sort of permit, family reunification or otherwise - he wouldn't be able to attend a public school here. Your only option would likely be a private school and they're very expensive.
How it would be with a private school? - why that would facilitate the VISA? - that's why I wonder if it is possible to get an acceptance letter from the school directly and use that for the VISA. And in that case, if it is possible to apply some other way for the acceptance letter from a public school
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Old 29.07.2020, 15:59
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

Perhaps it would be worth your while contacting this Swiss organisation, which supports a child centre in Mongolia. I don't think they are about adoption, not at all, but at least the leader, Christine Jäggi, seems to know about bridges between the two worlds, perhaps also bureacratically.

https://www.bayasgalant.ch/%C3%BCber...weiz/vorstand/

Documentary (2018) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq5yunFXKXM

Or this man, in Switzerland, who is concerned with education in Mongolia (also not about adoption).
https://www.ashoka.org/en-ch/fellow/carsten-rubsaamen

Even though adoption is not their central theme, Mongolian children are, so they may know someone who knows someone who could tell you how they succeeded in such an adoption.

EDIT: Disclaimer: I don't know anything about either of these people and their work, other than what I found online. I recommend that you google combinations of "schweiz" "mongolien" and restrict that to site:.ch only, and then do it in German, English, French and Italian, to see if you can find others who have their hearts in both countries. Good luck!

Last edited by doropfiz; 29.07.2020 at 16:17.
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Old 29.07.2020, 16:02
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/m.../adoption.html
Explanations about adoption, with references to the laws and requirements.
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Old 29.07.2020, 16:12
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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How it would be with a private school? - why that would facilitate the VISA? - that's why I wonder if it is possible to get an acceptance letter from the school directly and use that for the VISA. And in that case, if it is possible to apply some other way for the acceptance letter from a public school
If a child from abroad wants to pay to come to private school in Switzerland, they can get a student visa. Local state schools are for kids already resident here.

Maybe the best route is to try and apply for family reunification... if you can prove that your mother and sister can no longer care for him, they may grant it.
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Old 29.07.2020, 16:35
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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If a child from abroad wants to pay to come to private school in Switzerland, they can get a student visa. Local state schools are for kids already resident here.
.

Thank you.


That is a key aspect that I wanted to know. If the public schools are only for kids resident here, first he would need to be resident here... which at the end goes to the question, "how to register him here as a legal resident?"



I have checked some prices for private and it does not make much sense. Besides the price, I think for integration the best in public schools.
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Old 29.07.2020, 16:47
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

No need to adopt, just become his legal guardian.

Tom
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Old 29.07.2020, 18:29
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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Maybe the best route is to try and apply for family reunification... if you can prove that your mother and sister can no longer care for him, they may grant it.
I would like to avoid to prove that.

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No need to adopt, just become his legal guardian.
Tom
That sounds like a solution, any idea how to (easily) do that? meaning, the mother would agree on that, but as far as I understand it, the legal guardians concept needs to agree with a judge who decides to who give the custody.
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Old 29.07.2020, 18:45
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Re: Adoption / Bringing our (10 years old) nephew to live and study with us

Did you check the Recognised Liaison Adoption Services in the link I provided? They may be able to help

Also in this one there's a link for adopting abroad which may provide some info for your situation.

https://www.ch.ch/en/adopting-child/

As for getting a residence permit for him, only via adoption or maybe as his legal guardian. There are no other ways, since it looks like family reunification wouldn't work without the adoption/guardianship.
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Old 29.07.2020, 19:38
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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No need to adopt, just become his legal guardian.

Tom
Legal guardianship might not be enough.

A couple I know, US citizens resident in Switzerland with B permits, became the legal guardians of their niece after the death of the girl's parents, as per the parent's will. The guardianship was established in the US.

The couple were told that they could not bring the girl to Switzerland, as legal guardianship is not a family relationship.

This was a good 10-15 years ago, perhaps things have changed.

But the only way the couple could bring the child to Switzerland was via a student visa to study at an international school. Which is what they did.

The couple wanted to adopt the girl. (This had been the parent's wish. The couple were the child's godparents as well as aunt and uncle, they had been actively involved in the child's life from her birth.)

When the couple tried to adopt the child in Switzerland, things went pear shaped. The couple were told that they didn't qualify under Swiss criteria for adoptive parents.

Long sad story short: After a lot of back-and-forthing with the authorities, it became clear that there were no options to safeguard the child's future in Switzerland. So the family left.

The adoption was completed easily in the US - and the family lived happily ever after.

Of course as always in Switzerland, YMMV. This is just one anecdote. Perhaps the case would have been handled differently elsewhere.

Last edited by meloncollie; 29.07.2020 at 22:16. Reason: Oops. didn't ,not did. (Thanks Medea!)
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Old 29.07.2020, 20:10
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Re: Adoption / Bringing our (10 years old) nephew to live and study with us

Think you mean didn't qualify under Swiss criteria.
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Old 29.07.2020, 20:10
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Re: Adoption / Briging our (10 years old) newphew to live and study with us

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Maybe the best route is to try and apply for family reunification... if you can prove that your mother and sister can no longer care for him, they may grant it.
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I would like to avoid to prove that.
This part worries me. In Switzerland, the overriding concept with regard to children is that the steps taken must be shown to be in the childn's best interests. And it is considered the norm that it is in the child's best interests to be able to have ready contact to both parents, and be involved in an an active relationship with both.

Because of this, there really is no such concept, here in Switzerland, of just taking on the legal responsibility for a child without that being formalised.

From a Swiss perspective, for an adoption to be considered genuine, it is highly likely that questions would be asked not only about the child's mother's suitability to look after him, but also about that of the father.

For you to become the guardian(s), (in a way that is considered valid by Swiss authorities) you would most likely need at least
  • the consent of both parents, or
  • a judgment of a Court, deeming the parents unable to take a decision, or
  • a judgment of a Court deeming that it is in the best interests of the child to remove the natural parental authority from the parents and place it with you, and
  • depending on the child's age, perhaps also his consent.

Naturally, each of these aspects would have to be proved in detail: not only the unsuitability of the child's parents, but also your suitability.
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