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Old 05.08.2020, 09:32
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Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

Dear all, something interesting for several frontaliers.

I leave in France and my company is happy for me working from home (WFH) possibly for longer term.

With the 24.9% WFH suspended in France till 31st of August (maybe it will get extended) I would like to expand options of me not legally getting forced to visit my office.

One of my thoughts was to move my address to my Swiss canton (Aargau) by finding to rent a tiny room while I still stay at my family house in France.

Will this work and will this give me a B permit?

Any suggestions?
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Old 05.08.2020, 10:35
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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Dear all, something interesting for several frontaliers.

I leave in France and my company is happy for me working from home (WFH) possibly for longer term.

With the 24.9% WFH suspended in France till 31st of August (maybe it will get extended) I would like to expand options of me not legally getting forced to visit my office.

One of my thoughts was to move my address to my Swiss canton (Aargau) by finding to rent a tiny room while I still stay at my family house in France.

Will this work and will this give me a B permit?

Any suggestions?
Pretty certain that's not legal, and at least the French will likely ultimately find out and make you pay taxes in France. You'll also likely be in hot water as regards the 24.9% rule. Basically don't go there would be my advice.

You'll ultimately need to actually live in Switzerland if you want to continue WFH. If you are British you might want to investigate whether you need to do this by the end of the Brexit transition period.
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Old 05.08.2020, 14:40
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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Pretty certain that's not legal, and at least the French will likely ultimately find out and make you pay taxes in France. You'll also likely be in hot water as regards the 24.9% rule. Basically don't go there would be my advice.

You'll ultimately need to actually live in Switzerland if you want to continue WFH. If you are British you might want to investigate whether you need to do this by the end of the Brexit transition period.
Thanks HickvonFrick, I understand it is not so Legal but I am not so sure that the French will be able to trace?
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Old 05.08.2020, 14:48
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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Thanks HickvonFrick, I understand it is not so Legal but I am not so sure that the French will be able to trace?
The communes around Geneva have been doing their best to stop tax fraud with French residents claiming Swiss residency. Iím sure they will share their secrets with your commune.
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Old 05.08.2020, 15:23
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

checking water and electricity meters and use, for instance. You have to register with the Swiss Gemeinde as soon as you move in (about a week) - and you will become liable for Swiss taxes and compulsory Health Insurance.


+ you underestimate the 'curtain twitchers' - your neighbours will be very aware you don't live there and start asking questions with their mates at the Gemeinde, etc.
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Old 05.08.2020, 16:55
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

With your family there, it will be a hard sell, if your job is less than 1 hour of car even more so. I would check sanctions in France too.
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Old 05.08.2020, 17:01
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

The French will know if you are crossing the frontier, and how frequently. There are cameras at every crossing these days.
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Old 05.08.2020, 17:18
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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Thanks HickvonFrick, I understand it is not so Legal but I am not so sure that the French will be able to trace?
Would they even bother?

We never set out with that intent, but lived most of the time at our French house while keeping a Swiss address and permit. At the time, before the bilateral agreements, this was a very grey area, with both French and Swiss able to claim that we lived there.

On the French side it was only ever the Douanes who were bothered, mainly about car usage. We obviously (as houseowners) pay all local taxes and charges and could legitimately claim to be spending enough time in CH (as homeowners there too) to remain Swiss resident as defined in the bilaterals.

Anyway, since 2007 or whenever it was it's unlikely that they will systematically target you, although more so on AG or BS plates than the OW and now VS ones our cars wear.

But, and this might be a big but, once you've been tax resident in France it may be much more difficult to persuade them that you're no longer living there, so our experiences may not be so relevant.
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Old 05.08.2020, 17:19
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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The French will know if you are crossing the frontier, and how frequently. There are cameras at every crossing these days.
No, there are not.
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Old 05.08.2020, 17:35
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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No, there are not.
Thatís one of the tools that the communes around Geneva are using. And they havenít been shy about telling people thatís how they were done.

I canít swear that they exist along the entire frontier but one will never know which ones have one.
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Old 05.08.2020, 17:49
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

'moving your address' to Switzerland won't work.. you'll have to emigrate from France and become a resident in Switzerland.. (almost certainly means you'll need your employer to request a permit (B probably) for you.. will all take time)..of course you can have a 'holiday home' in France as well at same time
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Old 05.08.2020, 17:56
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

24.9% of what?

Tom
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Old 05.08.2020, 18:16
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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The French will know if you are crossing the frontier, and how frequently. There are cameras at every crossing these days.
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No, there are not.
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Thatís one of the tools that the communes around Geneva are using. And they havenít been shy about telling people thatís how they were done.
Bear in mind that the OP is talking about the Basel area, not Geneva. There are many unmanned country crossings within just a few km of the City, it's really quite different.

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I canít swear that they exist along the entire frontier but one will never know which ones have one.
The Basel motorway crossing does indeed have some sort of cameras, but the others in general do not. And even where they do, they are not used to target commuters in this way (having done this commute on Swiss plates for many years, and my wife still does, Covid notwithstanding).
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Old 05.08.2020, 19:09
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

Ace, you are talking about the other way round. Were you paying for Swiss Health/accident insurance for the duration? You were registered with your Swiss Gemeinde too, and had B or C permit. Totally different kettle of fish.
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Old 05.08.2020, 19:12
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24.9% of what?
Frontaliers aren't allowed to work from home, i.e. not in Switzerland, more than 25% (I know of the rule in theory, but I'm assuming the actual number from the OP), but it's been relaxed during the Covid period.

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Ace, you are talking about the other way round. Were you paying for Swiss Health/accident insurance for the duration? You were registered with your Swiss Gemeinde too, and had B or C permit. Totally different kettle of fish.
ITYF this is exactly what the OP is wanting to do, find a Swiss address that allows him to officially work from his new Swiss 'home' more than the 25% restriction that applies to Frontaliers, but actually spend most of his time at his existing house in France.
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Old 05.08.2020, 19:19
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

but in your case, you were registered in Switzerland, had health/accident insurance and permit, no? He has not got either.
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Old 05.08.2020, 19:31
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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but in your case, you were registered in Switzerland, had health/accident insurance and permit, no? He has not got either.
I think you're right about Ace. It would appear OP wants his cake and eat it too. Folks are explaining he'd need to register as resident in CH with all that entails, which is perhaps less attractive once OP gets into the details of taxation and health insurance.

How would authorities check or know? Beats me, but I'm sure OP isn't the first to come up with this idea so it's not some magic trick.

OP, if you're that worried, why not have a doctor certify you need to continue working X% from home?
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Old 05.08.2020, 20:04
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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but in your case, you were registered in Switzerland, had health/accident insurance and permit, no? He has not got either.
Well yes, I was assuming, from "move my address to my Swiss canton (Aargau)" and the mention of the B permit, that he was aware that the only way it could work would be to be officially Swiss resident. Otherwise it makes no sense at all.
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Old 06.08.2020, 00:03
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

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Thatís one of the tools that the communes around Geneva are using. And they havenít been shy about telling people thatís how they were done.

I canít swear that they exist along the entire frontier but one will never know which ones have one.
Near Basel they definitely don't. Plus, if you really wanted to you could do a France-Germany-Switzerland route. For large bits of Basel that might even be the optimal route.
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Old 06.08.2020, 07:42
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Re: Frontalier moving to B permit to avoid the 24.9% working from home

If an employee would be mainly and structurally be working from home now, in a country with a lower cost of living, then why not offer them a French contract? Could be an easy way for an employer to save cost and legal hassle.
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