Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10.08.2020, 21:53
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: zurich
Posts: 35
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
BBUCOK has no particular reputation at present
RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Dear EF’ers, have a great evening.

It may sound obvious, but I wanted to double check with you if there is a ling between unemployment payment and 2nd pillar ?

I mean, if we register to RAV and start getting unemployment payment, will this have an impact on my 2nd pillar, which I may get when in the future I deregister from CH and move back to my home country? I am non EF and non EFTA, and I am eligible to move the 2nd pillar savings when I leave CH eventually.

Thanks for your input.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10.08.2020, 22:15
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,446
Groaned at 109 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 6,073 Times in 3,404 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Once exited the previous employment and registered on RAV, your 2nd Pillar will be parked in the vested benefits foundation or account in chosen location. If you plan to leave Switzerland, you can move your pension abroad subject to taxation in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 10.08.2020, 22:31
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: zurich
Posts: 35
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
BBUCOK has no particular reputation at present
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
Once exited the previous employment and registered on RAV, your 2nd Pillar will be parked in the vested benefits foundation or account in chosen location. If you plan to leave Switzerland, you can move your pension abroad subject to taxation in Switzerland.
Thanks a lot for your comment. So this means that I will not lose my rights on this saving once I get RAV funds, and still move it back fully ( minus the withholding tax )?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10.08.2020, 22:47
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,446
Groaned at 109 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 6,073 Times in 3,404 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks a lot for your comment. So this means that I will not lose my rights on this saving once I get RAV funds, and still move it back fully ( minus the withholding tax )?
You can access your pension at minimum age of 55 y/o therefore either leave it in CH and get it in due retirement age, otherwise it can be also moved to your country.

You will never lose the accumulated pension. Here is a short description of the 2nd pillar:

https://thepoorswiss.com/second-pill...t-switzerland/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 10.08.2020, 22:51
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: zurich
Posts: 35
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
BBUCOK has no particular reputation at present
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
You can access your pension at minimum age of 55 y/o therefore either leave it in CH and get it in due retirement age, otherwise it can be also moved to your country.

You will never lose the accumulated pension.
thanks a lot, if I leave CH permanently, I don't need to wait till 55 years of age to move the funds back to my home country, which is non EU/EFTA, correct?

Again, thanks a lot for your help...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10.08.2020, 22:53
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,446
Groaned at 109 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 6,073 Times in 3,404 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
thanks a lot, if I leave CH permanently, I don't need to wait till 55 years of age to move the funds back to my home country, which is non EU/EFTA, correct?

Again, thanks a lot for your help...
Yes. Be careful though cashing your 2nd pillar and taxes. You would want to do it in the canton with minimum tax.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 11.08.2020, 09:03
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,712
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,415 Times in 9,939 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
Yes. Be careful though cashing your 2nd pillar and taxes. You would want to do it in the canton with minimum tax.
That very much depends of the tax treatment in the new country of residence as the Swiss tax is withholding tax which can be reclaimed if the pension becomes taxable somewhere else.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 11.08.2020, 09:23
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,342
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 994 Times in 524 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
Yes. Be careful though cashing your 2nd pillar and taxes. You would want to do it in the canton with minimum tax.
Yes this and if you cash in after you left, the determining canton of taxation is where the institution that holds your funds has its registration. Choose Schwyz for the lower possible taxation of the second pillar.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11.08.2020, 09:35
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,712
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,415 Times in 9,939 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
Yes this and if you cash in after you left, the determining canton of taxation is where the institution that holds your funds has its registration. Choose Schwyz for the lower possible taxation of the second pillar.
The cheapest canton is not always Schwyz as it depends on the fund size, the cost of moving is also important along with time delay.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the taxation position in your new country of residence is key as the level of Swiss taxation may be irrelevant & fully refundable so transferring to a lower tax canton is just wasting money.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11.08.2020, 22:32
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,342
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 994 Times in 524 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
The cheapest canton is not always Schwyz as it depends on the fund size, the cost of moving is also important along with time delay.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the taxation position in your new country of residence is key as the level of Swiss taxation may be irrelevant & fully refundable so transferring to a lower tax canton is just wasting money.
"Maybe" is key here - I still think it's important to know that you are taxed not based on your last kanton of residence, or the branche where you open your account, but where the institution legally sits.

Which are the countries that would tax your second pillar and hence make the taxation in Switzerland "irrelevant"?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11.08.2020, 23:01
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,712
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,415 Times in 9,939 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
"Maybe" is key here - I still think it's important to know that you are taxed not based on your last kanton of residence, or the branche where you open your account, but where the institution legally sits.

Which are the countries that would tax your second pillar and hence make the taxation in Switzerland "irrelevant"?
You will likely be taxed in the Jurisdiction where you live when you cash in the pension after leaving Switzerland, most jurisdictions tax you on worldwide income. The Swiss withholding tax is possibly irrelevant as it can be recovered 100% if taxable in your new place of residence after filling in a DTA form.

You are totally missing the taxation issue as you NO LONGER are tax resident in Switzerland, so Swiss rules are very likely irrelevant. Germany will, UK may, Malta would if remitted or if you pay normal taxation. Who won't is the more pertinent point.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11.08.2020, 23:01
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,053
Groaned at 90 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 18,347 Times in 8,154 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: RAV and 2nd pillar link?

Quote:
View Post
Which are the countries that would tax your second pillar and hence make the taxation in Switzerland "irrelevant"?
Amongst others it might be: Australia, China, Bulgaria, France, Israel, Peru, Cyprus, UK, Ireland, Japan, and South Korea.

Those are just the countries listed on Form Q-IS as they need special procedures. https://www.estv.admin.ch/dam/estv/d...IS_en_2017.pdf

In general it is any country with a double taxation treaty. For actual details see Rundschreiben 2-166 (also contains Form Q-IS in DE/FR/IT/EN).
https://www.estv.admin.ch/dam/estv/d...6-D-2019-d.pdf

See table on page 9. You can recover the Swiss tax on pillar 2 lumpsum payments if there is a "JA" in "Privatrechtliche Vorsorgeleistungen(Säule 2) - Kapitalleistung" column. (Interestingly, UK has a Nein. This either means a lump sum payment is not taxed in the UK, or it is also taxed and you can not recover the Swiss tax.)

Note: Taxable does not have to mean that you have to pay tax. The foreign applicable tax rate can be 0% and you could still recover the tax paid in Switzerland.
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pillar 1 and Pillar 2 related questions Kewlswiss Finance/banking/taxation 13 28.11.2019 21:09
Extra payments to pillar 2, or pillar 3a? cransom Finance/banking/taxation 9 16.08.2017 21:01
New form 8938: how to report 2nd pillar / 3a pillar accounts?? rog Finance/banking/taxation 8 30.06.2012 20:37
Pay into 2nd pillar whilst drawing on 3rd pillar jaudi Finance/banking/taxation 19 12.07.2011 10:05
What is the link? Hellvet Permits/visas/government 7 25.02.2008 12:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0