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  #21  
Old 16.08.2020, 10:30
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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If you take up residence in Italy, you need to pay tax. Then, for me, I also have a CBT that I need to pay. My stepson wants his green card that's why I waited.

Monkey, What do you think is going to happen in my case?
How exactly does he expect to get it? Just because he's now your stepson doesn't make him eligible for a Green Card as far as I can see. Unless you've adopted him - which considering you only married his mother last week - it doesn't look like it's possible.

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/explore-...-adopted-child
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  #22  
Old 16.08.2020, 19:40
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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I only got married last week.
That's the probable reason.

Certainly you already know that you have the right to residency as the husband of a Swiss. To make sure this right isn's abused some controls have been put in place, the police probably want to make sure that the marriage is for real rather than just perfunctiory and only to get you a B permit.

The limit for you, an Italian without residence permit, is up to 90 days in Switzerland in any 180 days. Travelling back and forth just for the weekends should be fine, additionally spending your holidays in Switzerland should also be fine but you should do the math beforehand.
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  #23  
Old 16.08.2020, 23:18
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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Now, I will get the CLN on my American citizenship .
You went and renounced?

Tom
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  #24  
Old 17.08.2020, 10:35
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How exactly does he expect to get it? Just because he's now your stepson doesn't make him eligible for a Green Card as far as I can see. Unless you've adopted him - which considering you only married his mother last week - it doesn't look like it's possible.

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/explore-...-adopted-child
Yes, his whole goal is to get into the Mairnes. We will see what happens.

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That's the probable reason.

Certainly you already know that you have the right to residency as the husband of a Swiss. To make sure this right isn's abused some controls have been put in place, the police probably want to make sure that the marriage is for real rather than just perfunctiory and only to get you a B permit.

The limit for you, an Italian without residence permit, is up to 90 days in Switzerland in any 180 days. Travelling back and forth just for the weekends should be fine, additionally spending your holidays in Switzerland should also be fine but you should do the math beforehand.
Thank you Max. that does make me feel better.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.08.2020 at 22:26. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #25  
Old 17.08.2020, 11:33
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

I wouldn't necessarily take a lawyer with you, but I'd certainly spend a few hundred CHF's to get their advice beforehand.

The police will no doubt make a report, and you'll be asked to sign it after the interview. Be careful, if you sign and have said something they can trip you up on, you'll have a problem. If you refuse to sign, which is your right, you'll antagonize them.

They will say but it's only a report of what you told us and put pressure on you! True, but perhaps in that report you incriminated yourself, so ask first for a copy so you can show your lawyer.

Hence, it's vital you speak first to a good lawyer for advice.
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  #26  
Old 17.08.2020, 17:51
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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You went and renounced?

Tom
This is what I know about American renunciations:

In the United State there two types of renunciation of citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution

Renunciation – (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5))
Committing An Expatriating Act – Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481)

The first, Renunciation, a “renunciation” is the only way of “relinquishing US citizenship” that involves the participation of the US government. “Renunciation” of one’s citizenship is done by making a formal sworn declaration before a US diplomatic or consular officer renouncing one’s US citizenship.

The second, Committing An Expatriating Act, These acts do NOT take place in the presence of a US consulate or embassy. Under current law, potentially expatriating acts include (but are not limited to): becoming a naturalized citizen of another country, engaging in certain forms of foreign government employment, and taking certain oaths in a foreign country.

That is what I know. In my case, I would like the second option.
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  #27  
Old 17.08.2020, 18:03
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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This is what I know about American renunciations:

In the United State there two types of renunciation of citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution

Renunciation – (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5))
Committing An Expatriating Act – Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481)

The first, Renunciation, a “renunciation” is the only way of “relinquishing US citizenship” that involves the participation of the US government. “Renunciation” of one’s citizenship is done by making a formal sworn declaration before a US diplomatic or consular officer renouncing one’s US citizenship.

The second, Committing An Expatriating Act, These acts do NOT take place in the presence of a US consulate or embassy. Under current law, potentially expatriating acts include (but are not limited to): becoming a naturalized citizen of another country, engaging in certain forms of foreign government employment, and taking certain oaths in a foreign country.

That is what I know. In my case, I would like the second option.
You may like the second, but to get a CLN you'd still need to prove to said US diplomatic or consular officer that you'd done the expatriating act. Which means going to said embassy/consulate and providing the proof most likely, though I guess they might accept it if you post it. And whether you'd be let off the $2,450 renunciation fee only they know. After all they claim it's to cover checking all your documents/proof and then sending it all to Washington and getting the approval/refusal back again.
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  #28  
Old 17.08.2020, 20:06
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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whether you'd be let off the $2,450 renunciation fee only they know.
They don't let you off.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 17.08.2020, 22:02
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You may like the second, but to get a CLN you'd still need to prove to said US diplomatic or consular officer that you'd done the expatriating act. Which means going to said embassy/consulate and providing the proof most likely, though I guess they might accept it if you post it. And whether you'd be let off the $2,450 renunciation fee only they know. After all they claim it's to cover checking all your documents/proof and then sending it all to Washington and getting the approval/refusal back again.
The fee is annoying for sure, but what's even worse is the fact if I get a CLN in 2020 it will nullify section 349(a) before 2004. it will be like back to the future. I lost my tax citizenship in 2004. However, if I get CLN it will state I lost my tax citizenship in 2020. The CLN is out of the question for me.

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You may like the second, but to get a CLN you'd still need to prove to said US diplomatic or consular officer that you'd done the expatriating act.
For example, let's say you take off to Canada to protest the Vietnam War and naturalized as a Canadian citizen. That is your expatriating event and it does not involve the US government or consulate. You lost both your tax citizenship and nationality when that happened.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.08.2020 at 22:26. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #30  
Old 17.08.2020, 22:19
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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For example, let's say you take off to Canada to protest the Vietnam War and naturalized as a Canadian citizen. That is your expatriating event and it does not involve the US government or consulate. You lost both your tax citizenship and nationality when that happened.
Yes but that is not your case
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  #31  
Old 17.08.2020, 22:28
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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Yes but that is not your case
It is, I expatriated before 2004 by pure luck
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  #32  
Old 17.08.2020, 22:34
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

I think you won't be able to have it both ways. You want your stepson to naturalize based on your own nationality, but given that you just got married that's going to take time. You have to adopt him, for one. I'm guessing that's not done yet since you only married recently.

Here's a link for him/you:
https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/...rt-h-chapter-2

You also say you don't want the CLN to be 2020 or later because then there would potentially be tax implications, because you gave up your tax citizenship but not your actual citizenship years ago.

I don't see a way to square those two circles. If he wants to naturalize based on you, you have to still be a citizen now. Tax stuff or not.

I think you're going to need an immigration lawyer for all that. The Swiss-Italian cross-border thing is another issue.

You're going to be a busy guy!
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  #33  
Old 17.08.2020, 22:42
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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It is, I expatriated before 2004 by pure luck
You can backdate an expatriating act, but again you have to go to the embassy/consulate and prove it to their satisfaction.

As 3Wishes said, you can't have it both ways. I'm not sure how you think you've given up tax citizenship. So long as you're an American citizen you have US tax filing obligations no matter where you live in the world. If you don't have that vital CLN to prove it you're still subject to US taxation.
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  #34  
Old 17.08.2020, 23:22
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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You can backdate an expatriating act, but again you have to go to the embassy/consulate and prove it to their satisfaction.

As 3Wishes said, you can't have it both ways. I'm not sure how you think you've given up tax citizenship. So long as you're an American citizen you have US tax filing obligations no matter where you live in the world. If you don't have that vital CLN to prove it you're still subject to US taxation.
Just follow the law in Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481) before 2004. Your good.
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  #35  
Old 18.08.2020, 10:49
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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It is, I expatriated before 2004 by pure luck
If that's true, you are not a US citizen and cannot pass on US citizenship after 2004.

Tom
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Old 18.08.2020, 10:51
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

The US only has citizenship, there is no "tax-citizenship".

Tom
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Old 18.08.2020, 23:39
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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The US only has citizenship, there is no "tax-citizenship".

Tom
I'll try to find a link that popped up when searching yesterday. It seemed to argue the other way around - you can give up citizenship (even by accident) but you have to deliberately file a specific form with the IRS to give up being a U.S. person for tax purposes. So not exactly "tax citizenship" but something along those lines.

And it seemed to imply you can't give up your tax status without also giving up citizenship. Okay, I'll hunt more tomorrow. Should have saved the link!
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  #38  
Old 30.08.2020, 18:54
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

Hi all, I wanted to follow up on the discussion.

I will be starting to work for a foreign company (Italian, actually), I should be working abroad, basically working as a G-permit, but in the reversed situation: I would go to work outside of Switzerland and come back. Ideally, the company would pour social system and insurances in the foreign country of registration.

We hold a C permit as a family. My wife has a a regular work in Switzerland, and she wants to stay in Switzerland. Most of my assets are in Italy - for which I regularly declare in the Swiss tax

for 2020, is clear enough, I spent 183+ days in lockdown or so , So Swiss Taxes, swiss medical system, swiss all. But from next year, I wonder how I should configure. I wonder if there are means to proceed with a clear situation definition, both permit wise, and tax wise.

Can anybody point me at a regulation where this situation could be framed?
thanks in advance,
Best regards,
edo777
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  #39  
Old 02.09.2020, 09:34
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

UPDATE: I went to see the police. They asked me about 6 questions relating to what we had planned for our lives in Switzerland. Not one question about an overstay. And after all the work collecting the documents proving where I was the last 2 years. They did not even want to see it.. I read the report and it was not negative at all.. I wonder if my luck is going to run out one day?
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Old 02.09.2020, 09:58
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Re: Italian Traveling Back and Forth To See My Swiss Wife And...

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Hi all, I wanted to follow up on the discussion.

I will be starting to work for a foreign company (Italian, actually), I should be working abroad, basically working as a G-permit, but in the reversed situation: I would go to work outside of Switzerland and come back. Ideally, the company would pour social system and insurances in the foreign country of registration.
7
This almost sounds like a "Lump Sum" arrangement where you would only pay the Swiss tax based on the living expense income.

https://staiger.law/en/news/lump-sum...-letter-no-44/
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