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Old 18.08.2020, 20:42
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Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

Hi all,

How is continued residency determined for a C permit holder?

Is the 183 day rule all there is to it, or are there other considerations like
  • centre of family life
  • employment
  • health insurance
  • taxes
  • other

Thanks.
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Old 18.08.2020, 22:09
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

What is it you want to accomplish?

Any of these can be a factor as far as I know. Number of days is the most obvious but if your center of life is elsewhere that might matter. If you're on an active C permit then you're registered here and will be paying health insurance here. As a resident, you pay taxes here on your worldwide income and assets.

If you need to go abroad for some time, there are a few reasons why you could ask to put the permit on hold.
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Old 18.08.2020, 22:37
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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If you need to go abroad for some time, there are a few reasons why you could ask to put the permit on hold.
Answering your second question first : there seems to be some confusion about coming into Switzerland as a visitor while the C permit is on hold, as you saw on the other thread.

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What is it you want to accomplish?
Basically, I am trying for an assignment which may require me to stay in India for extended periods of time. My center of Life (family), taxes, and health insurance will continue to be in Switzerland. the problem is that I may need to stay outside Switzerland for more than 182 days, but I obviously will want to be here for the rest of the time, and do not want to lose my C permit.

is there a way out?
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Old 18.08.2020, 22:43
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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Answering your second question first : there seems to be some confusion about coming into Switzerland as a visitor while the C permit is on hold, as you saw on the other thread.


Basically, I am trying for an assignment which may require me to stay in India for extended periods of time. My center of Life (family), taxes, and health insurance will continue to be in Switzerland. the problem is that I may need to stay outside Switzerland for more than 182 days, but I obviously will want to be here for the rest of the time, and do not want to lose my C permit.

is there a way out?
Is there no way to time it a bit more carefully with remote working, etc. so that you don't need to put the permit on hold or ride the line around 180 days? Prior to Covid I would have suggested flying back regularly so you're easily within the rules but now...it's really uncertain how things will go as we get into winter.
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Old 18.08.2020, 22:57
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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Is there no way to time it a bit more carefully with remote working, etc. so that you don't need to put the permit on hold or ride the line around 180 days? Prior to Covid I would have suggested flying back regularly so you're easily within the rules but now...it's really uncertain how things will go as we get into winter.
its a construction site assignment - difficult to do online. i know it will be best to stay within 180 days, but better to be prepared, also flexible for the client.
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Old 18.08.2020, 23:40
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

As far as I know, if you're out of the country for a (continuous) period of more than 6 months then you can lose your C permit. I don't know whether a quick weekend back in Switzerland breaks this period.



The other things are for determining tax residency, which it sounds like you would retain as you'd be deemed to have a tax domicile here.
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Old 18.08.2020, 23:42
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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.... whether a quick weekend back in Switzerland breaks this period....
That is the crux of the matter. It would be more than a weekend in my case
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Old 19.08.2020, 09:13
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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Answering your second question first : there seems to be some confusion about coming into Switzerland as a visitor while the C permit is on hold, as you saw on the other thread.


Basically, I am trying for an assignment which may require me to stay in India for extended periods of time. My center of Life (family), taxes, and health insurance will continue to be in Switzerland. the problem is that I may need to stay outside Switzerland for more than 182 days, but I obviously will want to be here for the rest of the time, and do not want to lose my C permit.

is there a way out?
Fly back for a few days before you have been away 6 months, I would want to show local Bank transactions such as ATM/POS for as many months as possible.
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Old 19.08.2020, 10:33
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

I would recommend that you talk to your commune and ask them how they interpret the rules.
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Old 19.08.2020, 13:33
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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Fly back for a few days before you have been away 6 months, I would want to show local Bank transactions such as ATM/POS for as many months as possible.
so... am i misunderstanging the rule to mean 'six months in a year' whil it is actually once in six months (just like the US Green Card)?
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Old 19.08.2020, 14:45
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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so... am i misunderstanging the rule to mean 'six months in a year' whil it is actually once in six months (just like the US Green Card)?
Are you planning to be away 11 months or 6 months & a few days.
If you go on 1 September you will have been in ch for 8 months this year. If you return for a week then you can do 9 months next year in CH
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Old 20.08.2020, 11:59
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

I will make maybe 5-6 trips, between 30-45 days each..
So, my maximum abscence from CH will not be more than 60 days (to be on the safe side), but the TOTAL abscence in a calendar year could be more than 6 months.

Can someone link the relevant law, please (DE/FR)?

Last edited by sva; 20.08.2020 at 12:10. Reason: typo
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Old 20.08.2020, 12:36
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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I will make maybe 5-6 trips, between 30-45 days each..
So, my maximum abscence from CH will not be more than 60 days (to be on the safe side), but the TOTAL abscence in a calendar year could be more than 6 months.

Can someone link the relevant law, please (DE/FR)?
The law is not specific on this topic and it is up to interpretation.

From the FNIA
Art. 15 Notice of departure
Quote:
Foreign nationals who hold a permit must give notice of departure to the competent authority at the place of residence if they move to another commune or to another canton or if they move abroad.
Art. 61 Expiry of permits
Quote:
1 A permit expires:

a. on notice of departure abroad;
b. on the grant of a permit in another canton;
c. on the expiry of the term of validity of the permit;
d. on expulsion in terms of Article 68;
e. on the holder becoming subject to a legally enforceable order for expulsion from Switzerland under Article 66a SCC or Article 49a MCC;
f. on the enforcement of an order for expulsion from Switzerland under Article 66abis SCC or 49abis MCC.

2 If a foreign national leaves Switzerland without giving notice of departure, a short stay permit expires after three months, and a residence or permanent residence permit after six months. On request, a permanent residence permit may remain valid for a further four years.
Art. 63 Revocation of the permanent residence permit
Quote:
1 The permanent residence permit may be revoked only if:

a. the requirements of Article 62 paragraph 1 letter a or b are fulfilled;
b. the foreign national has seriously violated or represents a threat to public security and order in Switzerland or abroad or represents a threat to internal or external security;
c. the foreign national or a person they must care for is dependent permanently and to a large extent on social assistance;
d. the foreign national has tempted to obtain Swiss citizenship unlawfully or his or her Swiss citizenship has been revoked based on a legally binding ruling issued in connection with a declaration of nullity under Article 36 of the Swiss Citizenship Act of 20 June 2014;
e. [removed from the law]

2 The permanent residence permit may be revoked and replaced by a residence permit if the residence criteria referred to in Article 58a have not been met.

3 Revocation is not permitted if justified solely by conviction for an offence for which a sentence or measure has been imposed, where the court has refrained from imposing an order for expulsion from Switzerland
Art. 90 Obligation to cooperate
Quote:
Foreign nationals and third parties involved in proceedings under this Act are obliged to cooperate in determining the relevant circumstances necessary to apply this Act. They must in particular:

a. provide accurate and complete information about circumstances, which are essential for the regulation of the period of stay;
b. submit the required evidence without delay or make every effort to obtain it within a reasonable period;
c. obtain identity documents (Art. 89) or assist the authorities in obtaining these documents.
From the corresponding Ordonnance relative à l’admission, au séjour et à l’exercice d’une activité lucrative OASA (not available in English, used deepl.com fro translation) Note: LEI is French for FNIA.

Art. 79 Extinction de l’autorisation (art. 61 LEI )
Quote:
1 Les délais prévus à l’art. 61, al. 2, LEI, ne sont pas interrompus en cas de séjour temporaire en Suisse à des fins de visite, de tourisme ou d’affaires.

2 La demande de maintien de l’autorisation d’établissement doit être déposée avant l’échéance du délai de six mois (art. 61, al. 2, LEI).

1 The time limits in accordance with Article 61 paragraph 2 of the FNIA are not interrupted in the case of temporary residence in Switzerland for the purposes of visits, tourism, or business.

2 The application to maintain the permanent residence permit must be submitted before the expiry of the six-month period (Art. 61 para. 2 FNIA)
Art. 89 Directives du SEM
Quote:
Le SEM édicte les directives nécessaires à l’exécution de la présente ordonnance.

The SEM shall issue the guidelines necessary for the implementation of this Ordinance.
Accordingly more information and how it is applied in practice can be found in the SEM guidelines,

See Chapter 3.5.3.2.3 and Chapter 8
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/sem/fr/...ngen-aug-f.pdf
and
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/fr/home...assnahmen.html
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 20.08.2020 at 12:48.
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Old 20.08.2020, 13:00
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

many many thanks, aSwissintheUS for your detailed reply.
I dont think any of the reasons in Art 62 wil apply to me.. (hopefully )

However, quoting from Art 61 (2) - Expiry of permits

"If a foreign national leaves Switzerland without giving notice of departure, a short stay permit expires after three months, and a residence or permanent residence permit after six months. On request, a permanent residence permit may remain valid for a further four years."

So, if I re-enter CH before the expiry of six months, its all good?
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Old 20.08.2020, 13:12
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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"If a foreign national leaves Switzerland without giving notice of departure, a short stay permit expires after three months, and a residence or permanent residence permit after six months. On request, a permanent residence permit may remain valid for a further four years."
See Art. 79 OASA above.

Which brings us back to your initial post. Centre of family life can be very important. A single person, or person whose family resides outside of Switzerland has it harder to proof that the short stays in Switzerland are not just visits, tourism, or business.
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Old 20.08.2020, 13:17
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

My business will be registered here, taxes & insurances will be paid here, i will continue to live in the apartment that I own here - most importantly - both my kids will continue to stay with me in my apartment. That should be enough i guess...

Last edited by sva; 20.08.2020 at 13:34.
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Old 20.08.2020, 13:29
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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My business will be registered here
Is this a GmbH/Sarl or sole proprietorship? If you intend to become Swiss you might also consider if the year counts toward residency or not. In case you are send abroad by your employer you can be away for up to one year and it still counts.Not sure if this rule applies to sole proprietorships.

See SEM Handbook on naturalization
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/sem/fr/...g20-kap3-f.pdf
and
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/fr/home...rgerrecht.html
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Old 20.08.2020, 13:33
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

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Is this a GmbH/Sarl or sole proprietorship? If you intend to become Swiss you might also consider if the year counts toward residency or not. In case you are send abroad by your employer you can be away for up to one year and it still counts.Not sure if this rule applies to sole proprietorships.

See SEM Handbook on naturalization
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/sem/fr/...g20-kap3-f.pdf
and
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/fr/home...rgerrecht.html
probably a sole propreitorship.
as long as i'm 'registered' in my commune for the year, the year should count, right?
becoming swiss is a process too long & complicated for me at the moment
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Old 20.08.2020, 14:59
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

There's no clear federal law about this (except the vague notion of "center of life" which is to be determined case by case, with a sizable amount of precedent-setting cases already decided by the Federal Court), and unfortunately your canton (FR) doesn't publish their guidelines on how they interpret the law. I think it's best to ask them (Migrationsamt FR) directly about the particularities of your situation.

As an example, there are the published guidelines of canton Zürich which say:
Quote:
4.2. Wiederholte längere Aufenthalte im Ausland

Bei wiederholt längeren Aufenthalten im Ausland über mehrere Jahre hinweg, wobei die Aufenthalte nie länger als sechs Monate dauerten, wird die Frage nach dem Lebensmittelpunkt zum ausschlaggebenden Kriterium (Urteil des Bundesgerichts 2A.31/2006 vom 8. Mai 2006 E. 3.2).
Zur Bestimmung des Lebensmittelpunktes (Schwerpunkt der familiären, sozialen und privaten Beziehungen) sind folgende Kriterien heranzuziehen:
– Auflösung des Arbeitsverhältnisses in der Schweiz / Antritt einer Stelle im Ausland;
– Wohnverhältnisse (Miete, Eigentum) in der Schweiz / im Ausland;
– Auszahlung der Pensionskassengelder;
– Familie oder enge Familienangehörige in der Schweiz / im Ausland und Bindung zu diesen;
– Dauer der bisherigen Anwesenheit in der Schweiz;
– Dauer der Aufenthalte in der Schweiz und Verhältnis zu den Aufenthalten im
Ausland;
– Gründe für die Auslandaufenthalte (bspw. Vielreisende [Ziffer 4.3.]);
– Freundes- und Bekanntenkreis, soziales Engagement, Vereinszugehörigkeit.

4.3. Vielreisende

Die Vielreisenden, d.h. Personen, deren Berufe typischerweise mit Reisen und Auslandaufenthalten verbunden sind, stellen eine besondere Kategorie der Fälle von Ziffer 4.2. dar. Bei ihnen ist es gerechtfertigt, weniger hohe Anforderungen an den tatsächlichen Aufenthalt in der Schweiz zu stellen. Darunter fallen namentlich Sportler, Künstler, Musiker und Monteure.
So it looks like your C permit would be relatively safe in Zürich because your family keeps living here and you could probably make a case that your job should be counted as one requiring much travel even if it's not listed under the most frequent examples. (point 4.3).

Of course it could be different in FR which is why I recommend informing the FR immigration office about your plans and hopefully you'll get official assurance that all shall be well from them. Especially if you are going to carry out international contracts in the name of your Swiss business entity.
I definitely wouldn't just rely on never spending more than 6 months outside Switzerland at a time.
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Old 20.08.2020, 18:42
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Re: Annual minimum residency requirements - Continued Permit C

Another thing to consider - I assume the entire family is dependent upon your permit? If so then of course you don't want to hand it back or put it on hold or lose it by not being here enough days - because then the family would have to leave Switzerland too.

You're going to have to find a way to schedule the work such that you are A) not out of Switzerland for more than 6 months in one stretch and B) in Switzerland at least the minimum number of days per year.

Since you're going to India, it will be noted when you leave Shengen and when you return because your passport is scanned.
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