Me and my wife, both non-EU citizens came to Lugano (TI) due to my wife's academic work. She gets a Permit B and I also get a Permit B over Family Unification. After 11 months, I finally found a job at the University. Everything went perfectly well so far, now it's the first time we will apply for permit renewal.

My university HR told me to renew my permit over "family unification". All the application work should be undertook by my wife's university and they will also send my documents to Immigration Office seperately. So we agreed on it, both HR guys also agreed on it and my wife's university makes the permit renewal application for both of us.

Next day, my wife received an e-mail from Immigration Office in Italian telling her to send them something like "please give us information about your conditions, if everything is OK...". So she asked her HR what to do and her HR prepares a letter for my wife declaring

1) our living conditions and economic situation are fine (OK, acceptable)
2) we will leave the country after her academic work is finished (why???)
3) we will not apply for any financial help from the canton...

Actually we have finally reached a situation where we can fund ourselves more than enough and if everything goes OK like this, we wanted to apply for a citizenship. But this really makes us think about it. Are we "unwanted here?"

Does anybody have faced with such a situation? Any recommendations?

I would never say what is in paragraph 2. But I would add that you two are integrating well in your community (and give some examples).

Hello, welcome to the forum!

To begin with, not all permits type B are the same. If it's coming fro the university, the permit of your wife may say something in the back like "education along lucrative activity" in Italian. This B permit is different to the B permit that allows to work unrestricted in CH "lucrative activity". Why both permits are B? Don't know, maybe the alphabet is that short that they had to use B more than one time.

Next, it is curious that HR offered to do this job for your wife and you. Usually, everyone is responsible of their permits. Did your wife signed something to let HR people act in her behalf?

Then, where's the money for the university position coming from? Is it a mobility grant from other country? Cantonal funds? Swiss science fund (SNF)? What were the specific grant conditions? Some academic funding has some conditions about staying or leaving.

Finally, income. Don't tell me your income, but the Swiss estimate a couple without kids needs 3000 CHF per month to survive. You could make it with less, but it's a standard to cover housing, food, health insurance, clothing and mobility. In some cantons it's a bit more in other less, but if your wife's income is near this level it's probable the authorities think there might be economic hardship.

I'd get rid of the middleman and deal directly with cantonal authorities. The HR people has nothing to gain or lose, why expect something from them?

Now we both gain above 3000.

OP can't do that entirely, because it's the employer that requests the permit for a non-EU. However he can certainly contact the cantonal authorities for more information/clarification.

Only works if you are literate in the local language, which OP isn't.

Tom

That too! But you speak Italian, so you could volunteer to help the OP.

Might it be a possibility that OP ask their own employer to try to obtain a permit, i.e. convert the status of "dependent upon spouse's permit" into a "permit in own name"?

I don't want to make such a declaration neither. The HR person told "normally they don't request such a document, it's a bit strange".

She's "working" in the university as a PhD assistant and receives and income above 3000 CHF. Her Permit B is "Formazione con attivita", mine is "Ricongiungimento con attivita". I assume both of us can work.


No.

This is interesting. I will check this.

You are totally right, but we don't know Italian and they don't speak English. We also trust the HR's since they do the same business for a long time and we assume that "they know the business better than us".

Do you think making such statements like "we will leave the country" could be problematic in the future?

Only if you don't leave.

Tom

There you have it: Formazione con attivita meaning a student that has income. However, conditions of residence permit for students still apply.

Going back to this one: 2) we will leave the country after her academic work is finished (why???)

I know this document is asked to Master's students with no income. Never requested to me during PhD or heard other PhD students talking about it. So, the cantonal authorities might have mistaken a Formazione con attivita with only Formazione, or rules simply changed. No way to know until talking to cantonal authorities and clarifying the issue.

HR may know their business, but knowledge without motivation is useless. Maybe get a translator and deal with the problem yourselves.


I'd also say talk to a lawyer that knows about immigration, but...that gets me a lot of groans around here.

As she is on a student permit, it is the normal conditions of the permit that students agree to leave the country after their studies are complete. This is a standard clause in the student permits for cantons around here. She probably already signed something to this effect when getting the original permit. If graduating from a Swiss university and non-EU you have thé opportunity to find a job for some months after completing the degree but need to go through the non-EU hiring process. If citizenship is a goal I don't think student permits count without time on a normal job permit thereafter. So you should really have a plan b for when her studies/permit finish.

No. That is wrong, they are treated (mostly) the same as Swiss an EU nationals regarding job permits during the 6 month job seeking period. Art. 21 Paragraph 3 FNIA

2) Is your wife classed as a student? It's normally that students have to say that they will leave once their studies are over.

3) Why are you upset about 3? It's also normal that they would want to know that you are not planning to rely on social help. This does not include unemployment benefits.

I think yes, she is getting paid by the university but she also might be classified as a student. That could be the reason.

That's also something new for me, because I have applied to the unemployment office, they were very kind and arranged me an Italian Course which was essential for me to land a job! Knowing that it is excluded is a relief. Of course we are not relying on any funds which we don't deserve.


Well, even if I would be making enough money for both of us?
Because I would choose to stay here if I can.

If your wife loses her permit (e.g. after completing her studies) you will need to leave the country as well even if you have a job, your permit is dependent on hers even if you have a job and earn enough money to support you both.
Alternatively you will have to be rehired as a fresh non-EU person with the whole circus of your employer having to prove that they could not find a Swiss/EU person for your position. That is very hard to do.