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  #21  
Old 14.09.2020, 15:18
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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If you leave Spain, that will probably invalidate your option of getting Spanish citizenship, as your application would most likely be tied to your having resided in Spain for some time, and still being resident in Spain at the time of your application and the duration of processing it (but you should check how the Spanish laws work).

Having an EU citizenship opens the doors to Switzerland, and to the whole of the EU. Under the current laws, you would then be eligible to get a permit to live in Switzerland, completely automatically, as soon as you can demonstrate that you have found some job, any job of any kind, with which you can support yourself. Therefore, if your other citizenship is now non-EU, then I'd advise you to do what it takes to become an EU citizen, especially since you are already so close. Spend the interim time preparing: language, peripheral skills, soft skills and networking.

If, on the other hand, you get a post-doc position in Switzerland on your non-EU passport, you may very well finding yourself, at the end of that contract, having to leave Switzerland again. There are some exceptions*, but you defnitely cannot count on automatically being allowed to stay in Switzerland beyond your post-doc contract.

I think you need to think through what you will do, where you might want to (or be able to) go to start again if, when you finish your post-doc, you are still non-EU and you are then not given a further permit to remain in Switzerland.

* Before a non-EU candidate can be considered for a permit, any potential employer of a non-EU citizen has to prove that they could not find anyone already living in Switzerland, or a Swiss citizen returning home, or an EU citizen, to fulfil the post. Exceptions could be make for those whose skills are in a speciality niche, such as cutting edge scientists, and those who will bring a specific benefit to Switzerland, such as medical doctors.
You are absolutely right. I have checked with the Spanish law and it says I cannot leave Spain for more than three months a year if I wish to get a citizenship. And accepting the post doc scholarship would mean residing in Switzerland for an entire year and then probably having to leave as you say, because the non-EU residents might not get a permit.

Thank you for such a detailed reply. ☺️

I suppose I will wait for 12 months still, to ask for a citizenship in Spain and then do a postdoc with the EU passport, why not...

Now I would need to brush up my German to level B2/C1 and to hone some software skills.

Does anyone know which diplomas are valid in CH to prove my German language level? Is it a Goethe institute diploma?
And as for Java skills, for instance if I have done several courses but I did not go to university to study Java, would any company consider me?

What kind of proof would I have of my skills or, experience?
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  #22  
Old 14.09.2020, 20:24
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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And as for Java skills, for instance if I have done several courses but I did not go to university to study Java, would any company consider me?
Not having formal university education is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that - having just finished some Java courses - you do not have much to offer. You'd be competing basically against every IT graduate (Java/Python is taught in every uni). Except remember that local graduates do have a diploma in CompSci and most likely - good german skills.
Additionally I have seen some companies (not in Swi) looking very skeptical at people with 'humanitarian' background mostly based on various prejudices.
I am a Java dev myself and from what I've seen in Switzerland - multinationals prefer to hire senior level professionals. Smaller companies require niche skills or very good theoretical background. And good german skills.
So I'd say - having just some basic understanding of Java it will be close to impossible to get hired.

If you are really serious about becoming a Java dev - why not start in Spain and gain at least 2-3 years of experience (preferably in an enterprise setting) before coming to Swi? This will put you in incomparably better position than many other candidates.
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  #23  
Old 15.09.2020, 01:29
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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Not having formal university education is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that - having just finished some Java courses - you do not have much to offer. You'd be competing basically against every IT graduate (Java/Python is taught in every uni). Except remember that local graduates do have a diploma in CompSci and most likely - good german skills.
Additionally I have seen some companies (not in Swi) looking very skeptical at people with 'humanitarian' background mostly based on various prejudices.
I am a Java dev myself and from what I've seen in Switzerland - multinationals prefer to hire senior level professionals. Smaller companies require niche skills or very good theoretical background. And good german skills.
So I'd say - having just some basic understanding of Java it will be close to impossible to get hired.

If you are really serious about becoming a Java dev - why not start in Spain and gain at least 2-3 years of experience (preferably in an enterprise setting) before coming to Swi? This will put you in incomparably better position than many other candidates.
This is very useful and realistic, thank you so much!

I understand that such a leap from Humanities to software development might be scorned, and it's logical, since others have spent years learning the craft and speak German loads better than myself.

I would probably come to Swi in about 20-24 months or so so this does work out.
I can try and see how to acquire experience in Spain, perhaps in a company that might not require university diploma.
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  #24  
Old 15.09.2020, 08:23
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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As to motivation, it is mostly due to the fact that it is probably the city with most job opportunities; at the same time, many of my friends live and work in Zurich. But no, it is not connected to a significant other. I can see how that might be a downside...
I find this thread a little ironic.... your motivation to come to Switzerland is that Zürich has many job opportunities. Then the thread continues on how to make yourself employable here

Surely if job opportunities are the consideration, you move to where there are jobs needing your current skill?
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  #25  
Old 15.09.2020, 13:30
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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I find this thread a little ironic.... your motivation to come to Switzerland is that Zürich has many job opportunities. Then the thread continues on how to make yourself employable here

Surely if job opportunities are the consideration, you move to where there are jobs needing your current skill?
Yes, I understand how that might look to you xD
My main reason is the group of amazing friends that already live and work in Swi, in Zurich while in Spain I do not know so many people and I have not connected with the country despite living there for many years.

Also I am kind of hoping one of those friends might become a significant other in the future even if he is not yet <blushes>

Thinking of living in Swi, I thought of two things, work permit and a job but had no real image of what's it like.
And the information has been slowly trickling in for me thanks to you guys <3

When I started posting some days ago, I did not know that it was so hard to obtain a work permit without a EU passport but now I know, and this has helped me discard some other options I considered.

And also, when I started posting, I did not know how "employable" my profile was. I thought I would be considered a highly qualified expert with my fifteen years of experience in English teaching and two doctorates in English and Latin American Literature.

But then someone from the forum clearly stated that it is not so and that my expertise is not sought after in Swi AT ALL. I didn't know that prior to asking


So basically for the past week I have been slowly "shifting my perception" from how I imagined the Swiss work permit acquisition and laboral market are and towards how they really are.

Maybe this is why you thought that it is ironic but it was like a "gradual process" for me xD
The thread evolved, I suddenly comprehended I won't be able to work in English language and literature field despite Zurich being the city with the most job posts; so I thought, oops, what else can I do?
I know it's weird xD
But if I wish to work in Swi, I see that I need to reinforce my software dev skills and my German level, so it was quite useful for me to learn from you guys ❣️
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  #26  
Old 15.09.2020, 14:40
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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And also, when I started posting, I did not know how "employable" my profile was. I thought I would be considered a highly qualified expert with my fifteen years of experience in English teaching and two doctorates in English and Latin American Literature.
Evelyn, do you honestly, truly want to work as an IT bod? This is a serious question.

I ask because I wonder if you have fully explored other options that might play into your strengths, where your current qualifications would be valued - or at least understood.

Another reason I ask the question is a barrier you might face by switching into a field where you will likely have to start near the bottom. Your two PhDs could perhaps be a barrier to getting hired. It's often assumed here that a person with a PhD, even if in an unrelated field, will expect a higher salary as his or her 'due', and if you don't have a commensurate track record of IT success as a justification you run the risk of your application being tossed in the bin as overqualified.

Sure, that prejudice might be unfair - but be aware that it exists. Getting an application past the machine screener so that a human being reads it can be a challenge when you take a 'different' path. So as you plan this move, be aware of the need to overcome this potential barrier as you plan your initial contacts with potential employers.

Honestly, unless you have always dreamed of A Cublcle Life, before you embark on an IT career do make sure you have truly looked at ways you could parlay what you currently do into something over here. Play to your strengths. If you do decide to pursue IT, perhpas look for a niche tangential to your current expertise.


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Also I am kind of hoping one of those friends might become a significant other in the future even if he is not yet <blushes>
You should have led with this. Honestly, marriage or a registered partnership (where recognized) is a far, far easier route.


Wishing you all the best.

Last edited by meloncollie; 16.09.2020 at 11:40.
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  #27  
Old 18.09.2020, 21:02
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

Evelyn,
it all comes down to what is your expertise.
Not just for and in Switzerland , but for any other country.

Infact , you should not try to sharpen your software dev skills just because it's
in demand in Zurich or CH , but rather look to excel in what you like to do.

What is your passion ? Where do you see yourself everyday having new ideas how to do something better ?

Is that software dev ? Than go for it.
If it's something else, than follow that feeling to do what you enjoy to do and Zurich will just pop up in the list of many other potential opportunities.
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  #28  
Old 18.09.2020, 23:25
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Re: Applying for work in Switzerland in future

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Evelyn, do you honestly, truly want to work as an IT bod? This is a serious question.

I ask because I wonder if you have fully explored other options that might play into your strengths, where your current qualifications would be valued - or at least understood.

Another reason I ask the question is a barrier you might face by switching into a field where you will likely have to start near the bottom. Your two PhDs could perhaps be a barrier to getting hired. It's often assumed here that a person with a PhD, even if in an unrelated field, will expect a higher salary as his or her 'due', and if you don't have a commensurate track record of IT success as a justification you run the risk of your application being tossed in the bin as overqualified.

Sure, that prejudice might be unfair - but be aware that it exists. Getting an application past the machine screener so that a human being reads it can be a challenge when you take a 'different' path. So as you plan this move, be aware of the need to overcome this potential barrier as you plan your initial contacts with potential employers.

Honestly, unless you have always dreamed of A Cublcle Life, before you embark on an IT career do make sure you have truly looked at ways you could parlay what you currently do into something over here. Play to your strengths. If you do decide to pursue IT, perhpas look for a niche tangential to your current expertise.




You should have led with this. Honestly, marriage or a registered partnership (where recognized) is a far, far easier route.


Wishing you all the best.

This is very good advice. My husband is a native speaker but when we arrived here he struggled to find work because his qualifications did not exactly match those of the Swiss for the type of work he does. Coming here with no work experience will make it difficult for you, unless as meloncollie says you find something that makes you exclusive and attractive to hire. The barriers that meloncollie says as well as others are real, and it can be a real struggle to find work here, especially without a network (can your friends already here help?). This is critical especially if you are not Swiss.
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