Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17.10.2020, 18:08
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: zurich
Posts: 44
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
MarkNow has earned some respectMarkNow has earned some respect
PolIce report

Hi all,

My friends son (he is 17) got a letter from the police to go and testify for an incident that he was involved. Like all kids he was hanging out with his friends in a park in Zurich but they climed to a wall that they were not supposed to. Now the police claims that they might have done damage to a public property.
His mother is very worries that this will affect his records to the police and further to that she will not be able in the future to get her c permit.
Does anyone here had any kind of such experience with his/hers kids?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17.10.2020, 18:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LaCote
Posts: 1,070
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,915 Times in 733 Posts
Sigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Does your friend have legal insurance?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17.10.2020, 18:57
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,841
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,485 Times in 1,349 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

My friends son (he is 17) got a letter from the police to go and testify for an incident that he was involved. Like all kids he was hanging out with his friends in a park in Zurich but they climed to a wall that they were not supposed to. Now the police claims that they might have done damage to a public property.
His mother is very worries that this will affect his records to the police and further to that she will not be able in the future to get her c permit.
Does anyone here had any kind of such experience with his/hers kids?

Thanks
I have experience with something similar in Germany when I was a kid. Go to the police, be very polite and show remorse, most likely nothing will happen and no official charges pressed. I would expect very similar outcome here.

Also, parents are not liable for the actions of their underage kids, so I would bet no impact on C.

Now from a parent perspective i would want to make sure that the story he tells is solid and ideally in line with what the others are going to say.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 17.10.2020, 19:31
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: zurich
Posts: 44
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
MarkNow has earned some respectMarkNow has earned some respect
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Does your friend have legal insurance?
No
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17.10.2020, 19:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LaCote
Posts: 1,070
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,915 Times in 733 Posts
Sigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

What kind of damage are we talking about? Just from climbing surely it cant be anything major.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17.10.2020, 20:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,914
Groaned at 249 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 6,692 Times in 3,149 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Tell the kid to tell the truth and to be polite. Answer all the questions but don’t volunteer anything.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 17.10.2020, 20:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,812
Groaned at 91 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 11,961 Times in 4,859 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Tell the kid to tell the truth and to be polite. Answer all the questions but don’t volunteer anything.
Quote:
View Post
I have experience with something similar in Germany when I was a kid. Go to the police, be very polite and show remorse, most likely nothing will happen and no official charges pressed. I would expect very similar outcome here.
I have indirect knowledge of two such cases. In both cases, "tell the truth" and "be very polite and show remorse" were what tipped the matter, to avoid an official charge. Also, in both cases, the adults organised that the teenager had to do some sort of work, to fix things.

In one case, the teenager got a small job and his earnings plus most of his pocket money were saved by his father, to pay for the damages caused. The couple whose property had been damaged said that the father did not need to pay them immediately, but that they wanted the lad and his father to visit them once he'd saved up the money. That re-inforced the remorse and the lad was shown the repairs and the bill, and given a receipt, and the matter pronounced closed.

In the other case, the young man went to do his reparition service on the premises that he had damaged, and worked there for an agreed number of hours per week, until he had paid off the repairs with his labour.

In both cases, the police, the parents and the parties who had suffered damage determined collectively, with the teenager, that making the matter last a long time would help to learn the lesson. And it did.

Edit: I didn't make the point clearly that this cooperative approach was agreed upon as a strategyto make it unnecessary for any charges to be pressed for this matter, AND so that this would not be the beginning of a life in crime. Very effective.

Last edited by doropfiz; 17.10.2020 at 21:17.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:13
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,035
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,347 Times in 11,558 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
No
They won't pay for criminal matters so unimportant.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:17
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,035
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,347 Times in 11,558 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Tell the kid to tell the truth and to be polite. Answer all the questions but don’t volunteer anything.
Probably better not to admit anything, you are not required to answer any questions. The police need a confession, without it the kids will walk free, if they had the evidence they would already have laid charges.
Be polite, say very little, no comment is both polite & a reasonable answer to any invasive questions. Far better to say nothing than be caught lying.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,914
Groaned at 249 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 6,692 Times in 3,149 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Always assume the police know (a lot) more than you think they could possibly know.

I believe a parent can be present throughout any questioning of a minor. Or have I been watching too many detective programs?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 18.10.2020, 07:24
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,035
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,347 Times in 11,558 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Always assume the police know (a lot) more than you think they could possibly know.

I believe a parent can be present throughout any questioning of a minor. Or have I been watching too many detective programs?
Waiting for the police to present their evidence, would then make sense, 'helping them with their enquires' is helping the police & nobody else. A lawyer can definitely be present.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19.10.2020, 12:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,987
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,961 Times in 6,215 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

No, the mother won't get dragged into this, no influence on her permit.
Quote:
View Post
Probably better not to admit anything, you are not required to answer any questions. The police need a confession, without it the kids will walk free, if they had the evidence they would already have laid charges.
Be polite, say very little, no comment is both polite & a reasonable answer to any invasive questions. Far better to say nothing than be caught lying.
I agree with this, see what evidence they have. Stay silent, decide afterwards if it's worth getting legal councel. Actually saying nothing is both impolite and extremely difficult, it's much easier to use some formula like "I prefer to not comment on this".

Walls don't usually break from being climbed, and the climber is usually more interested in what's behind that wall, perhaps also what's in the building behind it, rather than the climbing itself. So, confessing may indirectly create additional problems.

Further, OP says this is about property damage (Sachbeschädigung) only, which begs the question about the amount. Obviously this is about more than a lollipop but there's a difference between 2k and 100k.

There's also the question where the police got the kid's data from, people don't flash badges with their contact details. So they may also be able to prove the kid's guilt, in which case confessing is likely to help. On the other hand maybe they got them from the others in the group. I'd also want to know what they told the police, if anything, if they were "interviewed" already.

ETA:
I believe there's usually no right to have a lawyer present at the first "Einvernahme", interview if you will. Only when the case has proceeded to the prosecutor.

Last edited by Urs Max; 19.10.2020 at 12:43.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 19.10.2020, 13:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,764
Groaned at 72 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,926 Times in 1,113 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Probably better not to admit anything, you are not required to answer any questions. The police need a confession, without it the kids will walk free, if they had the evidence they would already have laid charges.
Be polite, say very little, no comment is both polite & a reasonable answer to any invasive questions. Far better to say nothing than be caught lying.

This. I would also suspect that he's not required to assist in their enquiries although they probably could arrest him in order to do so.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19.10.2020, 13:58
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,035
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,347 Times in 11,558 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
This. I would also suspect that he's not required to assist in their enquiries although they probably could arrest him in order to do so.
They will caution the kid first & ask if they understand the caution, so just saying no comment is fine regardless.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19.10.2020, 14:00
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
ETA:
I believe there's usually no right to have a lawyer present at the first "Einvernahme", interview if you will. Only when the case has proceeded to the prosecutor.
Wrong. You can bring one. It doesn't even have to be a lawyer.
The police must inform you about your rights; This includes the right to remain silent and to consult a Rechtsbeistand.
Art. 107, 127 Criminal Procedure Code

More information: https://www.ius.uzh.ch/dam/jcr:9b5c9...tersuchung.pdf

But as we talk about a minor, more relevant are the provision of the Juvenile Criminal Procedure Code No English version.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 19.10.2020, 17:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 1,094
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,317 Times in 601 Posts
LuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Parents are responsible for any damage their children cause, so if it's a group of kids the parents will have to work out who pays what.

If a criminal charge is laid, and it goes to court and he's penalised, it will affect him and can have repercussions on your application for a C permit. Good behavior and a clean record applies not just to the adult, but to the whole family.

It could also be that they caused no damage but something was damaged previously and the owner is hoping to get it paid for by someone else.

If it was a private owner then maybe talk to him and see if it can be resolved without police / court involvement.

If it belonged to the Commune or Canton, they are more likely to follow the legal procedure.

You could try a conciliatory tone and apologise, but that confirms his guilt and if your son admits it and the others don't, he'll take the rap alone. You really need to speak with the other parents and work out a strategy before anyone goes to the Police for an interview. Perhaps get advice from a lawyer as well - who could accompany them and speak on behalf of them all.

My advice otherwise is deny - deny - deny and sign nothing. They have to show the evidence and prove the case if it goes to court. Unlike in the UK, a not guilty plea will not affect the punishment if consequently found guilty. However, in this case expect the police to exert extreme pressure, shouting, banging table, pushing their body/face into your son's etc in order to bully into confessing. It makes their life much easier. This behavior is not confined to tin pot dictatorships but very much exists here as well.. Stand up to them and try to surreptitiously record the interview.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 19.10.2020, 18:10
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,615
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,416 Times in 18,128 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Parents are responsible for any damage their children cause
Up to a certain age.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 19.10.2020, 18:16
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,841
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,485 Times in 1,349 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Parents are responsible for any damage their children cause, so if it's a group of kids the parents will have to work out who pays what.
Wrong. If the kid is "urteilsfaehig" (which I would assume for a 17 year old), then it is the kid who is liable. Parents may only be liable if they did not fulfil their duty of oversight. Might end up having debt, or in real life parents will bail out.

Quote:
View Post
If a criminal charge is laid, and it goes to court and he's penalised, it will affect him and can have repercussions on your application for a C permit. Good behavior and a clean record applies not just to the adult, but to the whole family.
Wrong. Above 16 year olds will if they are part of the application considered separately. So in the worst case, the kid does not get C but parents still should.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 19.10.2020, 18:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,764
Groaned at 72 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,926 Times in 1,113 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
They will caution the kid first & ask if they understand the caution, so just saying no comment is fine regardless.

I meant he doesn't even need to turn up but then if the police really do want to question him, they'd have to find and arrest him. Probably!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 19.10.2020, 18:24
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: PolIce report

Quote:
View Post
Up to a certain age.
And only if supervision was not appropriate for age and activity.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Police report due to driving mistake ssaak86 Permits/visas/government 62 06.03.2018 11:19
advise needed: shall I report the case to police or not la-la-land Daily life 149 07.07.2017 15:18
Police report, stolen wheels [in Germany] pwiese Insurance 12 24.02.2014 22:26
Should/Could I report to the police for this case? freeworld Housing in general 2 02.11.2011 21:38
How do you report Credit Card Fraud to the Swiss Police? The_Love_Doctor Finance/banking/taxation 22 10.08.2010 18:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0