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Old 04.11.2020, 23:57
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Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

Hi everyone,

I, EU-8 national living in Switzerland with permit B, married on EU-8 national who do not live in Switzerland. I want to apply for VINTA. I fulfill all criteria, the only thing that confuses me is that according to Merkblatt, all family members should fulfill language criteria:
Quote:
grundsätzlich alle Familienangehörigen die Voraussetzungen zur Erteilung einer Niederlassungsbewilligung erfüllen müssen.
Does this mean that my wife should also fulfill this criteria even if she lives abroad?

My Migrationsamt adviced me that it is not the case, it is required only if she lives in Switzerland.

I have also found this:
Quote:
Hieraus ergibt sich aber nicht, dass darüber hinaus generell die (sprachliche) Integration der bereits hier lebenden Familienangehörigen berücksichtigt werden sollte. Vielmehr sollten die Integrationschancen der (im Ausland wohnenden) Familienangehörigen offenbar nur im Zusammenhang mit einem möglichen Familiennachzug überprüft werden.

der Wortlaut und die ratio legis von Art. 34 Abs. 4 AuG die Integration von bereits hier lebenden Familienangehörigen zumindest insoweit unberücksichtigt lässt, als sich hieraus keine Rückschlüsse auf die eigene Integration der um Bewilligung ersuchenden Person ergeben.
So if I live in Switzerland but my wife don't and I'm applying for VINTA, they shouldn't check her language knowledge unless she moves here?
Can someone quote me the law regarding this case (sorry I couldn't find it, the more I read laws the more I'm puzzled)?
Maybe someone had already such case?

Thanks in advance
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Old 05.11.2020, 00:27
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

No... only if she lives here an also wants a C-permit
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:22
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

but what if she would not come to Switzerland at all? Btw, law says about all family members above 12 years old (aller Familienangehörigen, die älter als zwölf Jahre sind). Does this mean also my parents, brothers and sisters as well?
[q]Bei Familienangehörigen handelt es sich, der offiziellen Definition nach, um Ehegatten oder Verlobte, Verwandte sowie Verschwägerte gerader Linie, (Halb-) Geschwister, Neffen und Nichten, Onkel und Tanten sowie Pflegeeltern und -kinder.[/q]
Then I have no chance at all... They don't live in Switzerland and never would.
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:53
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

Another question. I found this PDF on official SEM website:
Quote:
Kriterien zum Grad der Integration für die vorzeitige Erteilung der Niederlassungsbewilligung nach Artikel 62 VZAE
Erlernen der am Wohnort gesprochenen Landessprache
Bei Ehegatten müssen beide Ehepartner mindestens das Referenzniveau A2 nachweisen.
• Von der Pflicht zum Nachweis der erlernten Landessprache ausgenommen sind Personen, die in der Schweiz die obligatorische Schule oder mindestens den Sekundarabschluss II absolvieren bzw. absolviert haben.
So basically it says that both partners must have just A2. And this goes for VINTA, not for regular C application. Moreover, if partner goes to language school, (s)he shouldn't prove language skills at all. How relevant this information is? Is it outdated or actual? It's on official SEM website...
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:57
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

In my understanding, requirements for familly members are only valid if they live in CH and are applying for C permit together with you. Otherwise, it has no relavance for you as you apply for yourself only (if I understood you correcy).
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:57
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

Sorry, I cannot edit post and I got wrong about language school, it's about normal school instead.

But yet, A2 info is still interesting. Because according to more recent laws it is required B1 for VINTA... who is right? In what case one can have A2 for VINTA? or it is just outdated info that for some reason not removed from official website yet?
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:57
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

No idea what EU-8 is, I am from the "old EU", have a C permit and husband does not live in Switzerland. Nobody asked for his language skills.



Just read what IM said
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:58
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

Are you dumb? I said if your family DOESN’T live here and AREN’T applying for the C permit, their language ability DOES NOT MATTER!
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Old 05.11.2020, 10:59
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

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In my understanding, requirements for familly members are only valid if they live in CH and are applying for C permit together with you. Otherwise, it has no relavance for you as you apply for yourself only (if I understood you correcy).
Yes, it seems logical to me as well, and officials in my Migrationsamt confirmed that as well.

Yet, I didn't find anything in laws regarding this, only legal case posted above. Law just says that all family members must apply not specifying if they live in Switzerland or not. That's why I'm a bit confused.
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Old 05.11.2020, 11:00
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

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Yes, it seems logical to me as well, and officials in my Migrationsamt confirmed that as well.

Yet, I didn't find anything in laws regarding this, only legal case posted above. Law just says that all family members must apply not specifying if they live in Switzerland or not. That's why I'm a bit confused.

Why the h would someone apply for a permit when he/she does not live here?
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Old 05.11.2020, 11:03
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

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I said if your family DOESN’T live here and AREN’T applying for the C permit, their language ability DOES NOT MATTER!
Sorry, I reread your message, for some reason I got interprited it wrong first time. Attentiveness is not my strong part

My bad, thanks.
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Old 05.11.2020, 11:11
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

First, VINTA is no longer the correct designation for early C based on good integration. Since 2018 this is directly regulated by the FNIA and its ordinance the VZAE.


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No... only if she lives here an also wants a C-permit
No exactly right. The only she if lives here part is correct. The also wants C part is incorrect.
If any one of the family wants an early C based on good integration the other members of the family living in the same household must also fulfill some of the integration criteria in particular a minimum language proficiency.

The part with "lives in the same household" is not explicitly stated in the act or ordinance. As your court decisions shows family members living abroad should only taken into account if there is a direct relationship with the applicant integration.
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Old 05.11.2020, 11:13
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Re: Can I apply for VINTA if my wife doesn't know German but lives abroad?

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Why the h would someone apply for a permit when he/she does not live here?
Because for early C based on good integration it does not mater if the family members also apply or not. What is so hard do understand about that?
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