Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.01.2021, 20:23
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
theBritAbroad has no particular reputation at present
UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Hi All,

I have been researching quite a lot on UK-Swiss bilateral agreements post-Brexit and wanted to clarify a point with someone knowledgeable.

I have been living in Switzerland since 2019 with a B permit, so will have my rights protected. Per explainer for the agreement between UK and Switzerland, on citizens’ rights following the withdrawal of the UK from the EU and the Free Movement of person Agreement (specifically per point 19),

'UK nationals who are living lawfully in Switzerland at the specified date will be able to continue living there. Equally, Swiss citizens who have been living lawfully in the UK at the specified date will be able to continue living in the UK. After five years’ residence, those in scope of the agreement will be able to apply for settled status in the UK or permanent residence in Switzerland.'

Is this straightforward, as in just apply for a C permit or alternatively Migration office automatically will send you a C permit in due course? or do I have to meet all the new permanent residency requirement i.e. language skills and all? I don't mind either but would like to prepare in advance.

Appreciate your response on this. If this has already been covered by a different thread, please kindly point me to it. Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02.01.2021, 10:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post

Is this straightforward, as in just apply for a C permit or alternatively Migration office automatically will send you a C permit in due course? or do I have to meet all the new permanent residency requirement i.e. language skills and all? I don't mind either but would like to prepare in advance.
I can't see how that part of the process could possibly be changed - cantonal authorities decide how much to test those criteria for C permit applications, but im general they are no different for EU or non-EU citizens, notwithstanding those countries with special agreements to avoid the language requirement.

What may have changed is the length of residence required before C permit eligibility; as I understand it (which may well be less than completely) the five-year residency period only applies to EU citizens, everybody else needs to wait ten years. Whether that will change for UK citizens is perhaps the most important question for you.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02.01.2021, 10:51
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,644
Groaned at 95 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,179 Times in 2,824 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

I "assume" that the C-permit application process will remain the same as now for Brits already here (not going to get easier for sure). It may change for Brits coming in future.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02.01.2021, 11:39
eng_ch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Up where the air is clear
Posts: 1,719
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 1,714 Times in 869 Posts
eng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond reputeeng_ch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
What may have changed is the length of residence required before C permit eligibility; as I understand it (which may well be less than completely) the five-year residency period only applies to EU citizens, everybody else needs to wait ten years. Whether that will change for UK citizens is perhaps the most important question for you.
There is no change for UK citizens who were already resident by 31.12.2020 - under the citizens' rights agreement, and as confirmed by the embassy, Britons on B permits before the end of transition can still apply for a C permit after 5 years.
The language requirements remain unchanged; even EU citizens (apart from those from countries with the agreement that no language test is required) must comply with the new regulations that came into force a year ago (IIRC A1 written, A2 spoken for C permit).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank eng_ch for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 02.01.2021, 14:34
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Zurigo
Posts: 294
Groaned at 16 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 200 Times in 115 Posts
qwertz is considered knowledgeableqwertz is considered knowledgeableqwertz is considered knowledgeable
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

C permits for all foreign nationals fall within the scope of the Swiss Foreign Nationals and Integration Act and not within the free movement of people agreement.

Brexit changes nothing for C permit issuances (neither for Brits already resident in Switzerland on or before 31.12.2020 nor those arriving after).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02.01.2021, 15:05
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,644
Groaned at 95 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,179 Times in 2,824 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
C permits for all foreign nationals fall within the scope of the Swiss Foreign Nationals and Integration Act and not within the free movement of people agreement.

Brexit changes nothing for C permit issuances (neither for Brits already resident in Switzerland on or before 31.12.2020 nor those arriving after).
But weren't Brits entitled to a C after 5 years due to EU status? Will "new" Brits now not have to wait 10 years or go via VINTA?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02.01.2021, 15:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,671
Groaned at 240 Times in 174 Posts
Thanked 6,353 Times in 2,989 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

I doubt it would be automatic. You would need to apply. But to be certain ask your commune, well in advance. Every Canton is different.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02.01.2021, 15:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,261
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 3,018 Times in 1,480 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
Hi All,

I have been researching quite a lot on UK-Swiss bilateral agreements post-Brexit and wanted to clarify a point with someone knowledgeable.

I have been living in Switzerland since 2019 with a B permit, so will have my rights protected. Per explainer for the agreement between UK and Switzerland, on citizens’ rights following the withdrawal of the UK from the EU and the Free Movement of person Agreement (specifically per point 19),

'UK nationals who are living lawfully in Switzerland at the specified date will be able to continue living there. Equally, Swiss citizens who have been living lawfully in the UK at the specified date will be able to continue living in the UK. After five years’ residence, those in scope of the agreement will be able to apply for settled status in the UK or permanent residence in Switzerland.'

Is this straightforward, as in just apply for a C permit or alternatively Migration office automatically will send you a C permit in due course? or do I have to meet all the new permanent residency requirement i.e. language skills and all? I don't mind either but would like to prepare in advance.

Appreciate your response on this. If this has already been covered by a different thread, please kindly point me to it. Thanks in advance.
You will have to get A2 after 5 years for C permit.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02.01.2021, 16:25
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,608
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,326 Times in 1,983 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
You will have to get A2 after 5 years for C permit.
A2 spoken, A1 written (federally defined, as of September 2019).

There's a comprehensive list here:

https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/countri...achweis_EN.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02.01.2021, 18:30
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Zurigo
Posts: 294
Groaned at 16 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 200 Times in 115 Posts
qwertz is considered knowledgeableqwertz is considered knowledgeableqwertz is considered knowledgeable
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
But weren't Brits entitled to a C after 5 years due to EU status? Will "new" Brits now not have to wait 10 years or go via VINTA?
Nobody is entitled to a C except for, under certain conditions:
- spouses of Swiss citizens and
- citizens of the countries not requiring language certificates for C (due to binding international agreements unrelated to EU membership)

Brits will continue to be able to aspire for a C permit after 5 years of continuous and non-temporary stay in the future after Brexit, just as before, due to a reciprocity treaty between the two countries that has been in place for some time now and is unrelated to EU membership.

This reciprocity treaty is not as binding as the agreements between the countries not requiring language certificates, reason why language certificates are requested of Brits when asking for C permits.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02.01.2021, 18:37
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,214
Groaned at 51 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 2,206 Times in 817 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

A British acquaintance of mine is on a B-Permit, he married an Italian citizen. Two year after the marriage, the Italian lady became Swiss citizen.

Will that help the British guy in any way when he applies for a C permit or even Swiss citizenship in the future?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02.01.2021, 18:42
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 12,838
Groaned at 208 Times in 184 Posts
Thanked 21,095 Times in 8,658 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
A British acquaintance of mine is on a B-Permit, he married an Italian citizen. Two year after the marriage, the Italian lady became Swiss citizen.

Will that help the British guy in any way when he applies for a C permit or even Swiss citizenship in the future?
If she became Swiss after marriage it probably won’t help in relation to citizenship application as I think he’ll still have to go down the normal rather than facilitated route but being married to a Swiss citizen should guarantee him Swiss residency as long as they are married.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 02.01.2021, 19:30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 378
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 370 Times in 186 Posts
NichtsBesonders has earned some respectNichtsBesonders has earned some respect
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
If she became Swiss after marriage it probably won’t help in relation to citizenship application as I think he’ll still have to go down the normal rather than facilitated route but being married to a Swiss citizen should guarantee him Swiss residency as long as they are married.
Well technically they could divorce and remarry and then they could apply for the facilitated route in three years
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NichtsBesonders for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 02.01.2021, 21:10
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,577 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
But weren't Brits entitled to a C after 5 years due to EU status?
There is no C "due to EU status" Once again, permit C is not part of the FMOP or any other agreement with the EU https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...c_eu_efta.html
Any special deals outside the regular 10 years or 5 years due to good integration (Formerly known as VINTA, but since Januar 2019 part of FNIA and VZAE) are between Switzerland and the particular countries alone.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 04.01.2021, 16:03
Pachyderm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,414
Groaned at 73 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 3,068 Times in 1,053 Posts
Pachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
A2 spoken, A1 written (federally defined, as of September 2019).

There's a comprehensive list here:

https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/countri...achweis_EN.pdf
I'm not contradicting your post but the language stipulations don't seem to be uniformly applied. When I applied for my C Permit I wasn't asked about language or asked to produce a certificate. When I renewed last year I wasn't asked either. Admittedly I went to the Gemeinde armed with a few rehearsed phrases in German and possibly this was good enough to avoid any awkward questions -- despite both me and the official lapsing into English phrases here and there.

As it happens I do have A2 from about 8 years ago. My written German is OK and I can read German pretty well, but am hopeless at conversation that goes beyond restaurant / post office level. So I was anxious when I went to the Gemeinde with my completed form, but as stated, nothing was mentioned about showing a certificate. I have read on this forum that some people have been asked to attend a formal interview to test their language skills -- a thought which freaked me out a bit. But fortunately I didn't have to do that. From what I hear it's largely Kanton-dependent how these rules are applied.

To the OP, the best way to deal with the language requirement is simply to do the A2 cert which is actually pretty easy if you have a bit of time before the C Permit application.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04.01.2021, 16:28
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Zurigo
Posts: 294
Groaned at 16 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 200 Times in 115 Posts
qwertz is considered knowledgeableqwertz is considered knowledgeableqwertz is considered knowledgeable
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

You obtained your C permit prior to the introduction of new integration criteria. Also no certificates are requested when renewing C permits.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04.01.2021, 16:52
Pachyderm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,414
Groaned at 73 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 3,068 Times in 1,053 Posts
Pachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
You obtained your C permit prior to the introduction of new integration criteria. Also no certificates are requested when renewing C permits.
No problem, I know that the rules have been changed or reformulated recently. But the language requirement has been around for years in one form or another, as I well remember reading about the need for certificates and spoken interview tests in some Kantons long before I applied for my first.

Maybe certificates are now being requested every time in every Kanton. Worth mentioning though that someone in my family recently applied for a B Permit and had arranged some German classes in line with the rules that now state that rudimentary language skills are expected, but that the requirement would be waived if they produced proof of intention to join a course. In the event, they weren't asked to produce the course confirmation. Actually, the rules are a bit all over the place. The list we had also said that health insurance was a prerequisite for the granting of a permit when in fact you can't get health insurance without a permit! It's a Catch 22.

Some good basic info (in English) on language requirements is contained here: https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/countri...achweis_EN.pdf

I wouldn't advise anyone to ignore these stipulations but I'm still not convinced that these strict standards are being checked everywhere. Better safe than sorry though.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04.01.2021, 17:53
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,577 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
When I applied for my C Permit I wasn't asked about language or asked to produce a certificate.
You did get your C before 2019 - tempi passati. Other rules were in force back then.

Quote:
View Post
When I renewed last year I wasn't asked either.
You do not "renew" C. C is unconditional and forever (*). All you have to do is to get a new physical card every so often.

(*) Terms and condition apply.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,261
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 3,018 Times in 1,480 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

Quote:
View Post
You did get your C before 2019 - tempi passati. Other rules were in force back then.


You do not "renew" C. C is unconditional and forever (*). All you have to do is to get a new physical card every so often.

(*) Terms and condition apply.
Do they have any grounds of refusing someone with appalling German who nevertheless scraped through the A2 exam and has the certificate to prove it?

I can say my name, where I come from and that I like eating curry. Real conversation is a bit beyond me (though tbf they should have asked for B1 or B2 if they wanted some actual competence).

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 04.01.2021 at 18:34.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 23.04.2021, 17:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Richterswil
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Funken has no particular reputation at present
Re: UK citizen, Brexit: Obtaining C permit in future

I am SO confused about all this. Below is the excerpt from the actual agreement. When I read this, it says a UK citizen in CH prior to 1/1/21, should be granted, automatically, permanent residency. (It says you are not required to be here for 5 years) It also says in point 2 that this status would not be affected if you leave for up to a period of less than 4 consecutive years.

So it sounds like if you are on a B permit, we actually have the right, automatically, to a C permit (if that's what is considered 'permanent'). I'm concerned at the moment, as my son is looking to go to an EU country for uni...we have B permits, but with a B, you can't leave for more than 6 months. All very conflicting, would love your views.

Article 14
Permanent residence status
1. For the purposes of determining eligibility for permanent residence status under national law, the Parties shall not require Swiss nationals or United Kingdom nationals who fall under Article 10(1)(a), (b) or (e), (2) or (3) of this Agreement to have resided legally for a continuous period of more than 5 years.
2. Subject to paragraph 3, permanent residence status shall not be affected byabsences from the territory of Switzerland or the United Kingdom for a period of less than four consecutive years.
3. The host State may impose in respect of persons holding permanent residence status a notification scheme for departure abroad, in which case paragraph 2 shall only apply where the holder of permanent residence status makes a request for their permanent residence status to remain valid for a further four years (as they shall be permitted to do under national legislation) and that request is granted. The request must be submitted no later than six months from the date of exit from the host State.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brexit, c permit




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
procedure for obtaining permit for partner (EU citizen) Moorsholm Permits/visas/government 9 28.06.2015 15:10
Obtaining B permit timeline david1 Permits/visas/government 3 28.12.2009 13:45
UK citizen student permits and longterm options for future in Switzerland loze85 Permits/visas/government 4 15.07.2008 18:18
obtaining a B permit elizabeth.ks Permits/visas/government 10 06.06.2008 11:20
Obtaining permission for UK citizen to buy property clive7 Housing in general 1 20.02.2007 08:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0