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-   -   Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/303470-can-englander-work-eu-if-holder-swiss-residence-permit-pre-brexit.html)

oatcakes 03.04.2021 19:29

Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit

So just wondering, had a quick read, but couldn't really find what I was looking for

So if I have a valid B permit issued before brexit and if I want to work in a EU country, am I entitled to work there since Switzerland is an EFTA country?

Island Monkey 03.04.2021 19:45

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oatcakes (Post 3292472)
Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit

So just wondering, had a quick read, but couldn't really find what I was looking for

So if I have a valid B permit issued before brexit and if I want to work in a EU country, am I entitled to work there since Switzerland is an EFTA country?

No. You don't even have freedom of movement to travel in the EU, you are restricted to 90/180 days in the rest of Schengen. Your rights apply to Switzerland only unfortunately.

bowlie 03.04.2021 20:24

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
What is an Englander? Ya, OK I can guess but whatever happened to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (sorta) Northern Ireland? Rule Britannia and all that?

Englander, what a pity.

olygirl 04.04.2021 00:05

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
I think it's a wrench.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engl%C3%A4nder_(Werkzeug)

Island Monkey 04.04.2021 00:41

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3292485)
What is an Englander?

Englšnder = Englishman (German)

st2lemans 04.04.2021 07:51

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oatcakes (Post 3292472)
Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit

NO.

Tom

bowlie 04.04.2021 08:02

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Monkey (Post 3292512)
Englšnder = Englishman (German)

And they all have English passports, right?

eng_ch 04.04.2021 11:44

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oatcakes (Post 3292472)
Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit

So just wondering, had a quick read, but couldn't really find what I was looking for

So if I have a valid B permit issued before brexit and if I want to work in a EU country, am I entitled to work there since Switzerland is an EFTA country?

Only if your employer deploys you there short-term. But even then it's not at all clear whether there is a conflict between the CH-EU agreements that allow employers to deploy any employee regardless of nationality and the UK-EU TCA, that restricts short-term business visits to the situations and the swathes of reservations set out in the TCA. And if so, which takes precedence. And I don't suppose anyone will know until it's tested. And I suspect nobody will want to test it with British staff because nobody will want to take the risk of the consequences.

oatcakes 04.04.2021 13:40

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
It was said in a tongue in cheek way

Landers 05.04.2021 21:25

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Monkey (Post 3292476)
No. You don't even have freedom of movement to travel in the EU, you are restricted to 90/180 days in the rest of Schengen. Your rights apply to Switzerland only unfortunately.

The answer to this (free movement within Schengen) on this forum seems to be yeah but no but yeah but no.

If you fly UK to Paris with a British passport and Swiss permit, should you get a stamp in your passport in France?

bowlie 05.04.2021 22:01

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3292910)
The answer to this (free movement within Schengen) on this forum seems to be yeah but no but yeah but no.

If you fly UK to Paris with a British passport and Swiss permit, should you get a stamp in your passport in France?

No! Because you are a legal resident of a Schengen country. If you donít present your permit with your passport you likely will be stamped. Immigration officers are seldom clairvoyant.

Landers 06.04.2021 00:55

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3292920)
No! Because you are a legal resident of a Schengen country.

Ok so how does that fit with the following?

"No. You don't even have freedom of movement to travel in the EU, you are restricted to 90/180 days in the rest of Schengen. Your rights apply to Switzerland only unfortunately."

Island Monkey 06.04.2021 09:19

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3292910)
The answer to this (free movement within Schengen) on this forum seems to be yeah but no but yeah but no.

If you fly UK to Paris with a British passport and Swiss permit, should you get a stamp in your passport in France?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3292920)
No! Because you are a legal resident of a Schengen country. If you donít present your permit with your passport you likely will be stamped. Immigration officers are seldom clairvoyant.

True, your passport shouldn't be stamped if you have a residence permit from a Schengen country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3292943)
Ok so how does that fit with the following?

"No. You don't even have freedom of movement to travel in the EU, you are restricted to 90/180 days in the rest of Schengen. Your rights apply to Switzerland only unfortunately."

No clue. I have no idea how they enforce the 90/180 day thing when internal borders have no checks anyway. I assume they have been doing this for years with other non-EU Schengen residents though, it's not as if it is totally new.

MidfieldGeneral 06.04.2021 09:28

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
ENGLANDER :rofl:

eng_ch 06.04.2021 10:11

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3292910)
If you fly UK to Paris with a British passport and Swiss permit, should you get a stamp in your passport in France?

You shouldn't, but it was happening and, according to my sources, sometimes still is. It's an issue that is exercising British in Europe because a) the information still isn't always filtering down to the coalface and b) even if the stamp will be ignored on presentation of a residence permit in Schengen, it still has potential to cause issues at the border until you've clarified it.

Bear in mind, that staying overnight at e.g. a hotel airport if you fly in on the last plane and the next connection isn't until the next morning could well count as one of your 90 in 180 days

SwissFan 12.04.2021 23:30

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eng_ch (Post 3292993)
You shouldn't, but it was happening and, according to my sources, sometimes still is. It's an issue that is exercising British in Europe because a) the information still isn't always filtering down to the coalface and b) even if the stamp will be ignored on presentation of a residence permit in Schengen, it still has potential to cause issues at the border until you've clarified it.

Bear in mind, that staying overnight at e.g. a hotel airport if you fly in on the last plane and the next connection isn't until the next morning could well count as one of your 90 in 180 days

Noone ever counts these days. I used to be non-EU, they never actually count anything. I think Brits are a bit over obsessive about 90/180. And yes, having a residence permit in Schengen exempts you from 90/180 rule and from stamps.

NotAllThere 13.04.2021 08:28

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SwissFan (Post 3295699)
Noone ever counts these days. ...

Until one day the tax authorities decide to audit your return and begin to question your assertion and you get a huge tax bill. Or the immigration authorities check up and you get banned from Schengen.

Island Monkey 13.04.2021 09:08

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SwissFan (Post 3295699)
And yes, having a residence permit in Schengen exempts you from 90/180 rule.

No it doesn’t (only in your country of residence).

“Foreign nationals from non-EU/EFTA states – travelling in the Schengen area
Foreign nationals from non-EU/EFTA states in possession of a valid Swiss foreign national permit B, C, L or Ci do not require a visa to visit a country in the Schengen area (up to 90 days within a 180-day period). However, you must carry a valid Swiss residence permit and valid travel documents (your passport or a Swiss travel document for foreign nationals).” https://www.ch.ch/en/travelling-abroad/

Or

“Third-country nationals (non EU/EFTA) in possession of a Swiss permit B, C, L and Ci may visit the Schengen area for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a visa, provided they have a residence permit and a valid travel document.” https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...reise/faq.html

eng_ch 13.04.2021 13:09

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SwissFan (Post 3295699)
Noone ever counts these days.

Used to. The ETIAS system that is coming in next year will involve passports being scanned at the border, so the entire Schengen system will have electronic records of your entries and exits (at least by sea and air) and will flag overstays automatically.

As Island monkey says, holding a Schengen residence permit only waives the 90 in 180 rules for your country of residence. Now are the border guards at every Swiss (or other EU internal) border going to scan the passports of everyone in every car going in and out? i.e. will there pragmatically be any issues within Schengen? Well, given that the point of Schengen is to prevent border checks, I suspect in practical terms enforcement of the 90 in 180 when driving your own car is likely to be patchy at worst. But if you do overstay outside your country of residence, bear in mind it's at your own risk and you will be in the wrong if you should get caught.

Landers 13.04.2021 13:31

Re: Can Englander work in EU if holder of Swiss residence permit pre-brexit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eng_ch (Post 3295875)
Used to. The ETIAS system that is coming in next year will involve passports being scanned at the border, so the entire Schengen system will have electronic records of your entries and exits (at least by sea and air) and will flag overstays automatically.

Same point as before - you fly into Paris and take the train to Switzerland. Are you going to get a call 91 days later? Will you be put on a wanted list? What if you're stopped whilst weekend shopping in France? Never going to happen.


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