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  #41  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:03
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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False, cover is equivalent to a standard KVG:

Personen, die in einem EU-Staat, in Island oder Norwegen einem gesetzlichen Krankenversicherungssystem angehören, haben Anspruch auf medizinische Behandlungen bei Krankheit, Nichtberufsunfall oder Mutterschaft, wenn sie in der Schweiz wohnen. Die Gemeinsame Einrichtung KVG nimmt für die ganze Schweiz die Anspruchsprüfung vor und koordiniert die Abrechnung der Behandlungskosten sowie die Weiterverrechnung an die zuständige Krankenversicherung im Ausland.

Persons who belong to a statutory health insurance system in an EU state, Iceland or Norway are entitled to medical treatment in the event of illness, non-occupational accident or maternity if they reside in Switzerland. The Gemeinsame Einrichtung KVG carries out the entitlement check for the whole of Switzerland and coordinates the settlement of the treatment costs as well as the onward settlement to the responsible health insurance abroad.

https://www.kvg.org/de/wohnsitz-in-d...--1--1077.html
Don't worry about translations, top right of the Gemeinsame Einrichtung KVG site there's a language selection button, English included. This part is very interesting:

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On behalf of your health insurance, we cover the costs of medical treatment in Switzerland and pass them on to your health insurance (international benefits assistance). The costs will therefore continue to be borne by your health insurance. Without insurance cover from your health insurance, it is therefore no longer possible for us to provide assistance and to cover the costs. Our assistance as well as the coverage of health care costs are based on the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons between Switzerland and the EU (annex II of the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons, art. 17, 24, 26 Regulation (EC) No 883/2004, art. 24 Regulation (EC) No 987/2009) and is only possible as long as the conditions of the EU coordination law are fulfilled. We verify this in close cooperation with your health insurance and exchange information for this purpose (art. 76-78 Regulation (EC) No 883/2004).
https://www.kvg.org/en/domicile-in-s...--1--1077.html

So, that organization is telling not my problem, we'll check if it works after your reimbursement request. In practice, it means that the EHIC works as a bail when you go to the hospital/doctor. You get the service, leave there without paying nothing at the moment, but the question of who pays? is answered later.

There may be potential for health insurance arbitrage, or not.
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  #42  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:04
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OMG....what a bad business for poorer EU countries. I mean at least the costs/prices in DE are still comparable.
In any case, it is unlikely that a person employed by an entity in a poorer EU country (and receives their local salary), would be deemed to earn enough to be issued a permit to live in Switzerland.

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Border workers and Residents
Border workers and residents in the cantons of AG, AR, BL, BS, GL and UR as well as in the cities of Zug, Cham, Risch Rotkreuz and Steinhausen who want to take a health insurance in Switzerland or be exempted from compulsory insurance.
The rules are the same for the whole of Switzerland, it is just that the above cantons/cities provide for an exemption form request online directly from the KVG common institution.

In all other places, the request must be made directly to the respective cantonal health insurance authority that is in charge of issuing exemptions.

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So, that organization is telling not my problem, we'll check if it works after your reimbursement request. In practice, it means that the EHIC works as a bail when you go to the hospital/doctor. You get the service, leave there without paying nothing at the moment, but the question of who pays? is answered later.

There may be potential for health insurance arbitrage, or not.
This is correct.

In any case not paying on the spot after treatment is also applicable for KVG insured people, they typically get a bill after the fact either directly from the medical institution or from the health insurance company.

Whether the quality of the treatment is the same as with KVG is a different question. In some hospitals there is a separate section with separate doctors for patients with no cover or with an EHIC.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.04.2021 at 14:55. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #43  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:16
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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This is correct.

Whether the quality of the treatment is the same as with KVG is a different question. In some hospitals there is a separate section with separate doctors for patients with no cover or with an EHIC.
That's a new thing for me. First time I read about 1st and 2nd class health services in CH.
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  #44  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:19
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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That's a new thing for me. First time I read about 1st and 2nd class health services in CH.
Would create a lot of drama if it ever comes to light, especially with the lack of transparency in the way some doctors and hospitals charge health insurance companies their time.
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  #45  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:24
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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Would create a lot of drama if it ever comes to light, especially with the lack of transparency in the way some doctors and hospitals charge health insurance companies their time.
So, a conspiracy about the quality of services offered to people with EHIC cards?
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  #46  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:29
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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So, a conspiracy about the quality of services offered to people with EHIC cards?
No, real life practices in some hospitals for people with no cover (think Romani people) or those insured by another state (EHIC) with separate waiting rooms and separate doctors (often more junior).

Nothing stops medical institutions from doing this, you get what you pay for.
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  #47  
Old 26.04.2021, 11:42
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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No, real life practices in some hospitals for people with no cover (think Romani people) or those insured by another state (EHIC) with separate waiting rooms and separate doctors (often more junior).

Nothing stops medical institutions from doing this, you get what you pay for.
Assuming there are effectively 1st and 2nd class health services and nothing stops hospitals from doing this, why recommend the EHIC alternative with rather significant caveats?

Your kid broke an arm playing with friends? No local health insurance? That door please...
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  #48  
Old 26.04.2021, 12:19
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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Assuming there are effectively 1st and 2nd class health services and nothing stops hospitals from doing this, why recommend the EHIC alternative with rather significant caveats?
Because paying for a KVG insurance when you are already paying for German social security costs on a Euro salary and living in Switzerland is not ideal.

If you see my initial posts it was merely a suggestion hence the '(if you so wish)'.

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Your kid broke an arm playing with friends? No local health insurance? That door please...
It does not work that way, first of all the kid would be insured via KVG as the father (OP's husband) would be working here.

Secondly, people with EHICs would never be refused treatment, all I am saying is in some hospitals (notably high-cost university hospitals) there is a separation of care.
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  #49  
Old 26.04.2021, 13:41
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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No, at no point was I directly bullying another user or being aggressive which is against forum rules.
trolling =/= bullying

You claimed categorically that OP's medical bills will be covered by her German health insurance. Please provide an official German source confirming your claim both for German public health insurance as well as private health insurance (GKV and PKV, respectively).
(For those wondering, PKV is available if you earn more than ~65k Euros, though you can chose to remain insured under GKV)

Germany's health ministry explicitly states that only costs with a domestic origin are covered, treatment, care, drugs, etc. The exceptions don't apply to people residing abroad, they're basically the already mentioned emergencies for tourists abroad.

What you provided so far is a Swiss entity saying "we'll try to charge the insurance abroad", but the real question is whether that foreign insurance is willing to shoulder the costs in the first place.
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  #50  
Old 26.04.2021, 14:04
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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Germany's health ministry explicitly states that only costs with a domestic origin are covered, treatment, care, drugs, etc. The exceptions don't apply to people residing abroad, they're basically the already mentioned emergencies for tourists abroad.
The link you provided is for tourists, so not relevant here.

I refer you to a previously quoted post:

Art. 2 Ausnahmen von der Versicherungspflicht

1. Es unterstehen nicht der Versicherungspflicht:

d. Personen, die nach dem Freizügigkeitsabkommen sowie seinem Anhang II, dem EFTA-Abkommen, seinem Anhang K und Anlage 2 zu Anhang K oder einem Abkommen über Soziale Sicherheit wegen ihrer Erwerbstätigkeit in einem anderen Staat den Rechtsvorschriften dieses Staates unterstellt sind;

1. it is not subject to compulsory insurance:

d. Persons who, under the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons and its Annex II, the EFTA Agreement, its Annex K and Appendix 2 to Annex K, or a social security agreement, are subject to the legislation of another state on account of their gainful employment in that state;

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1..._3867/de#art_2

as well as he agreement on the Free Movement of Persons between Switzerland and the EU (annex II of the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons, art. 17, 24, 26 Regulation (EC) No 883/2004, art. 24 Regulation (EC) No 987/2009)

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What you provided so far is a Swiss entity saying "we'll try to charge the insurance abroad", but the real question is whether that foreign insurance is willing to shoulder the costs in the first place.
I don't know why it is relevant to change the question around. Whether or not the Swiss KVG common institution is successful in claiming costs from Germany has nothing to do with OP and OP would in no case be liable for medical costs as they are insured via their German EHIC.
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  #51  
Old 26.04.2021, 14:31
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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The link you provided is for tourists, so not relevant here.
Correct. Please provide one that does apply and corroborates your claim. A German one, that is, not a Swiss one.
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I don't know why it is relevant to change the question around. Whether or not the Swiss KVG common institution is successful in claiming costs from Germany has nothing to do with OP and OP would in no case be liable for medical costs as they are insured via their German EHIC.
It would help if you read your own links. The KVG says in your own link
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The costs will therefore continue to be borne by your health insurance. Without insurance cover from your health insurance, it is therefore no longer possible for us to provide assistance and to cover the costs.
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  #52  
Old 26.04.2021, 14:46
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Re: How to live in Switzerland with working contact from Germany

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Correct. Please provide one that does apply and corroborates your claim. A German one, that is, not a Swiss one.
Any German link is irrelevant as OP would be resident in Switzerland, not Germany. But feel free to look up the already provided European legislation (which is relevant in this case):

Free Movement of Persons between Switzerland and the EU (annex II of the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons, art. 17, 24, 26 Regulation (EC) No 883/2004, art. 24 Regulation (EC) No 987/2009)

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It would help if you read your own links. The KVG says in your own link
Yes, maybe you should read more closely:

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The costs will therefore continue to be borne by your health insurance. Without insurance cover from your health insurance, it is therefore no longer possible for us to provide assistance and to cover the costs.
This means the KVG common institution will not cover costs unless you are insured by an EU/EFTA member state i.e. without an EHIC card and S1 form they will not underwrite bills. It does not say the patient is liable for costs if the KVG common institution does not manage to have costs reimbursed from the country.
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