That is not the same. An asylum seeker came here, was allowed to stay, then got a job so they were not reliant on benefits. They didn’t apply for a permit from eg Canada to come and work at McDonalds.

If you come here for a job, you lose that job after 6 months, go on the RAV they will ask you to apply everywhere including at McDonalds, or COOP or whatever. I know because I and my colleagues been asked to by them.

In doing so, you'll get your B, continue to live here and still come out ahead of an academic permit-wise.

What?

Why come to Switzerland without a SNF/FNS grant in first place?

Hah, because I did my masters here and 800 francs a semester in an expensive country is still cheaper than 20000 francs a semester in a cheaper country.

But I did have a few friends who came from India and South America during their PhD and were payed stipends based on Indian and South American PhD salaries. For them, life was hard.

That is a personal choice to live without or very low income during the PhD. Not something wrong with Swiss immigration laws.

not sure what the problem is. students don't get c permits. want a c permit? get a real job. don't like the rules? change the law.

Never said it was, but it didn't make it any easier for them. It's actually a broader discussion because they were on SNF projects, but without the SNF matching their salaries to local PhD's. There are discussions about changing this.

Postdocs/Researchers/Entrepreneurs in science like the OP are not students, they just have student permits.

They also have no right to change the law or launch popular referendums, they are not citizens, they can't vote.

If you're interested in how to change the law you can follow this link:
https://www.ch.ch/en/demokratie/poli...federal-level/

Around here, refugees can’t get a job at Mc-dodo. They don’t have the language skills required.

I know Non-EU people who initially got a permit through family reunification with a partner but where allowed to keep it when they broke up (before 5 years) and got it renewed, and converted into a C, with the equivalent of a job at McDonalds.

The problem is, I'm not a student, I've never been a student in Switzerland, I was an academic researcher for 3.5 years and have had a "real job" in industry for 3 years, but the system considers me a student.

So, could it be that the problem is the employer that doesn't want to the effort of hiring a 3rd country national and used the post-doc/student visa as loophole?

I guess by the system you mean the university system, I understand now. There's people who decides which kind of contract is offered to each employee. The arrangement could be convenient for a professor, but it's clear you're no happy with it. Universities hire lots of people as workers. During uni times, we joked the guy in charge of the field equipment had better contract terms.

There is far les bureaucracy here than in any of the neighboring countries.

Tom

No, my employer did go through the proper steps to hire me, the problem was administration said that because my wife was still a student (actually a post doc at this point running a startup company), but basically they said they would switch me from my formation B to a family regroupement B, and that there was no possible way I could get a quota B through my job as long as they had the option to give me a non-quota B. So here I am, still on a the equivalent of a formation B after 7 years and 3 years of permanent employment.

Maybe it's a good idea to talk to a lawyer. Look for permanence de avocats de Vaud, they provide 30-40 min consultations for a few francs (20-40? that range). Perhaps something can be done. Anyway, an specialist knows more than random people on a BB

if the visa system considers you a student, you are a student for that purpose. at least you knew that before you went ahead. it's a choice. if i don't want to peer into peoples' mouths, i don't become a dentist.

You should get divorced immediately.
Excellent policy, there's zero reason to fund private research only to see the recipients walk away with the fruits. Get private funding if you don't like this.

You shouldn't waste your time explaining yourself to people whose suggestion is 'change the law.' They obviously have no idea what you are talking about. It is indeed a real problem which causes Switzerland to lose a lot of highly skilled people.

I can agree with you. The idea is you get your degree and you go back to your home country to apply all that knowledge...I personally find it counterproductive but perhaps the Swiss believe highly-qualified human resources are dispensable as they can always borrow from neighbouring countries.

I have a friend who was allowed to stay here after her postdoc studies only after she married an EU citizen (her back then fiancee). That was some years ago but I don't think much has changed. Also, note that all those years spent as a student don't count toward citizenship (EU or not).
I can't judge the system, it's what we found and have to work with. Consult an immigration lawyer, look for a full time job in a Swiss company and don't get angry. Good luck.

Student years on a B count for citizenship, what they don’t count for is towards C permit unless followed by 2 years on working B/family reunion B immediately upon graduation.

I stand corrected.
Unfortunately I know 3 people (EU) who were denied C permits even if they clearly met the criteria you stated, being told that their student B permits don't count in spite of being "followed by 2 years on working B/family reunion B immediately upon graduation". I would venture to guess some people in public admin either don't really know the legislation or try to pull as many obstacles (based on their mood/preconceptions etc) as they can with the hope that you give up. Better to consult an immigration specialist/lawyer and see what are the options.