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  #21  
Old 26.08.2021, 09:01
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Re: C permit refusal

If I do decide to appeal, are there any formal time frames for that?
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  #22  
Old 26.08.2021, 09:12
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Re: C permit refusal

Strange story indeed. I neither work nor study and I am a member of only one club and got my C permit without a problem.

Are you an active member of your clubs? Do you participate in their events? Maybe you can get some recommendation letters from the clubs as well with mention of your involvement in clubs activities?

Last edited by TinyK; 26.08.2021 at 11:19.
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  #23  
Old 26.08.2021, 11:11
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Re: C permit refusal

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No, I was not studying at that time - I just applied and got confirmation from the Uni that the accepted me. I will start mid September.

How could they treat me as a single, if I described everything in my motivation letter and submitted docs of my husband? Even if the clerk didn't read my letter, he/she should have noticed salary slips...
VinTA is either a family thing or an individual, hence in my opinion they are right in treating you as an individual.

I know of so many cases where a person was here for many years on B , got married but couldn't apply under VinTA soon enough since the spouse wasn't eligible due to stay being less than 5 years. So re-iterating VinTA is either family or an individual.

In your special case with EU spouse , VinTA family was never a choice unfortunately.

Hence they treat you as single VinTA applicant and you must fulfil the eligibility irrespective of the fact that you are a member of household. Not being in University at the time of application also didn't favor you.

Other option is to check your normal C permit eligibility (not VinTA) and take that approach. May be being a spouse of EU is already in your favor with regards to the timeline.
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  #24  
Old 26.08.2021, 11:51
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Re: C permit refusal

My husband has changed from non-EU to EU while he was applying for C permit. It's not the priviledged EU nationality, so he also applied under VINTA and referred to the same laws as I did.

Do you think I should try to apply for C petmit once again next year, when my B expires and submit some docs from the university? Rather than question them now?
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  #25  
Old 26.08.2021, 12:11
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Re: C permit refusal

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My husband has changed from non-EU to EU while he was applying for C permit. It's not the priviledged EU nationality, so he also applied under VINTA and referred to the same laws as I did.

Do you think I should try to apply for C petmit once again next year, when my B expires and submit some docs from the university? Rather than question them now?

I think you should apply once you have enrolled at the university. Just resubmit your documents (French test, university documents, club memberships). You can apply at any time - indeed, when we did this, it was not near the end of the validity of our B permits.
It wouldn't hurt mentioning in your application your husband also has a C, and the required French level.
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  #26  
Old 26.08.2021, 12:25
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Re: C permit refusal

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How could they treat me as a single, if I described everything in my motivation letter and submitted docs of my husband? Even if the clerk didn't read my letter, he/she should have noticed salary slips...
Never underestimate human capacity for incompetence. Nor their capacity for refusing to admit mistakes.
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  #27  
Old 26.08.2021, 12:50
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Re: C permit refusal

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Did you manage to get your C permit eventually?
I did but only after I changed the nationality registered on my permit from non EU to EU. Even than they tried to put the permit at 0 as if I was starting from scratch in Switzerland even though I was living 7 years here at the time.

You are not the only one, you need to fight it, at the first refusal I got some reason that was outside the legal frame and I contest it only for them to catch on my nationality. When that was sorted they had nowhere to go and give me a C permit
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  #28  
Old 26.08.2021, 14:17
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Re: C permit refusal

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They do this on purpose to limit the people eligible for naturalisation.

It's an interpretation of the law that is made to be used on purpose. It happened to me the exact same scenario and few others that I know.
The LEI/AIG (re: Art 58a (d)) and all accompanying ordnances and handbooks are very specific in that being in a formal education process is equivalent to working for a salary as far as "participating in the economic life" is concerned.

It might be that the authorities refused OP's application because she has not yet started her studies. Once she does, their argument that she does not fulfill the "economic participation" integration requirements will not be tenable at all.

I also must say that doing this on purpose to limit people's chances for naturalization is very evil and looks like a cantonal thing. Kanton Zurich even has a special "I'm a househusband/wife caring for the household/kids" checkbox in the part of the application where you describe how you're integrated. If your family (i.e. your partner) earns enough to support the family, it's considered completely okay. I'm sorry to hear that this happened to OP and you.
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  #29  
Old 26.08.2021, 14:35
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Re: C permit refusal

at the time of application, you were neither working nor studying.
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  #30  
Old 26.08.2021, 14:41
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Re: C permit refusal

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at the time of application, you were neither working nor studying.
When I did my application I was working and still got refused
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  #31  
Old 26.08.2021, 15:16
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Re: C permit refusal

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When I did my application I was working and still got refused
Sorry to hear that. What was the reason given ?

I was Non-EU (non US/Canadian/Australian) with family, but we managed to get it in 6 years under VinTA. Very pleasant experience if you ask me. Didn't even had to wait for 1 month. But this was in 2013, so not sure about nowadays
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  #32  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:04
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Re: C permit refusal

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Sorry to hear that. What was the reason given ?

I was Non-EU (non US/Canadian/Australian) with family, but we managed to get it in 6 years under VinTA. Very pleasant experience if you ask me. Didn't even had to wait for 1 month. But this was in 2013, so not sure about nowadays
Not integrated. Nothing specific. Just that.

I fulfilled every criteria that was needed for a C permit., and than some.

Everybody else from my family got a C permit except me. I was the only one with non EU nationality.

The government wanted to show that they have eased on the criteria on naturalisations so they made the C permit process very very strict, because refusing a C permit is not the same as refusing a naturalisation
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  #33  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:12
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Re: C permit refusal

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Not integrated. Nothing specific. Just that.
That was very much illegal.
Any such decision must be a "beschwerdefähige Verfügung". I don't know the French legal term for it but it basically means it needs to be specific enough and base itself on concrete law articles so that you can craft a concrete appeal against their argument. Cannot really do that against "you're not integrated, period".
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  #34  
Old 26.08.2021, 16:15
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Re: C permit refusal

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Why German?

OP lives in Lausanne!

Tom

Can you kindly block me, rather than groaning at my almost-every post please? Common sense renders blocking someone who you don't like, rather than continuously groaning their posts, a far more effective use of time, and more community-spirited frankly.

-------------------------------

OP I think it also makes sense to try once you're enrolled, and have spent a bit of time studying. You can then add a section to your application, mentioning how rewarding you're finding that experience, and what you're learning about your course and fellow students.
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  #35  
Old 26.08.2021, 17:00
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Re: C permit refusal

OP, might it be an option to get a job? Part-time employment that you could continue while studying (and in which, ideally, you speak the local Swiss language)? Then, when you next apply, you will be working, and soon also be studying.
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  #36  
Old 26.08.2021, 17:17
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Re: C permit refusal

It is usually impossible to "get a job" without permit.
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  #37  
Old 26.08.2021, 17:41
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Re: C permit refusal

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It is usually impossible to "get a job" without permit.
I had understood that OP now has a B permit, and what has been refused is the upgrade to a C permit. But perhaps I misunderstood.
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  #38  
Old 26.08.2021, 18:24
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Re: C permit refusal

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I had understood that OP now has a B permit, and what has been refused is the upgrade to a C permit. But perhaps I misunderstood.
No, that's me. I saw it just now. It is not easy to get a part time job in LS, a uni city where loads of local students also need to wok. Hope B permit can help

It seems though that they just want OP to integrate fast.

Last edited by MusicChick; 26.08.2021 at 18:35.
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  #39  
Old 26.08.2021, 18:32
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Re: C permit refusal

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I had understood that OP now has a B permit, and what has been refused is the upgrade to a C permit. But perhaps I misunderstood.
I do have a valid B permit. Just wanted to follow my family with C.

I will try again next year at renewal time and will submit documents from the Uni.

The takeaways for others - try to apply for permit upgrade as a family, at one time - to avoid unnecessary issues.
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  #40  
Old 26.08.2021, 19:03
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Re: C permit refusal

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I do have a valid B permit. Just wanted to follow my family with C.

I will try again next year at renewal time and will submit documents from the Uni.

The takeaways for others - try to apply for permit upgrade as a family, at one time - to avoid unnecessary issues.
Don't sweat it too much, we applied as a family and still only me got refused, for no apparent reason, except my non EU nationality.

You mentioned your wife is EU, can you obtain EU citizenship ?
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