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Old 25.08.2021, 19:05
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C permit refusal

Hello, everyone!

My husband and children have received their C permit earlier this year, while I have applied few months later under VINTA (have not yet passed language test at the time of their application). I am non-EU, my husband is.

Recently I got a refusal for the reason of inadequate integration because I am not working (even though I have mentioned that I would be studying at the University).

1) is there a chance for me to get C permit while studying or later, if I don't work?

2) can there be potential problems with issuing at least B permit for me if my husband happens to not have a job and be on chômage by the time my renewal period comes?

3) if I study, can my next permit be downgraded to L or B without gainful activity?

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 25.08.2021, 19:08
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Re: C permit refusal

The sequence of events is unclear to me.


Did you apply whilst not having studied German and having neither a job, nor a course of study?


That's how I read your post.
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  #3  
Old 25.08.2021, 19:41
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Re: C permit refusal

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The sequence of events is unclear to me.


Did you apply whilst not having studied German and having neither a job, nor a course of study?


That's how I read your post.
I have applied once I had received my B1 FIDE certification and when my university application was approved. I have never been employed in CH and previously received my 2 year B permits as a dependant.
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Old 25.08.2021, 19:45
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Re: C permit refusal

I think the fact you are going to be going to uni does not prove that you are intergrated at this time. Maybe apply again after you’ve been at uni for a while, or join a local club or something similar.
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Old 25.08.2021, 19:52
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Re: C permit refusal

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I think the fact you are going to be going to uni does not prove that you are intergrated at this time. Maybe apply again after you’ve been at uni for a while, or join a local club or something similar.
I am a member of two local clubs and mentioned this in the motivation letter. Also submitted a recommendation letter from a swiss neighbor. I also submitted the copy of my husband's C permit and his salary statement (just like we did before for B permit renewal).

Their emphasis was on me not working, and thus not integrated enough.

I wonder is this is a rule or a biased decision of a person reviewing my application.
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Old 25.08.2021, 19:57
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Re: C permit refusal

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I am a member of two local clubs and mentioned this in the motivation letter. Also submitted a recommendation letter from a swiss neighbor.
Their emphasis was on me not working, and thus not integrated enough.

I wonder is this is a rule or a biased decision of a person reviewing my application.

Simply to get a better sense of things, what percentage of your day is rooted solely in speaking, hearing and writing German? Do you communicate with your neighbour (who wrote the letter) in German? Are the clubs German-speaking? What's done at the clubs? Are the activities of the clubs connected to the local culture? What percentage of your day would you say is rooted in things that help integration?


Just trying to get a clearer picture of things, which is why I am asking.
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Old 25.08.2021, 20:19
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Re: C permit refusal

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Simply to get a better sense of things, what percentage of your day is rooted solely in speaking, hearing and writing German? Do you communicate with your neighbour (who wrote the letter) in German? Are the clubs German-speaking?
French, as the OP's lists Lausanne in their profile.
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Old 25.08.2021, 20:21
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Re: C permit refusal

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Simply to get a better sense of things, what percentage of your day is rooted solely in speaking, hearing and writing German? Do you communicate with your neighbour (who wrote the letter) in German? Are the clubs German-speaking? What's done at the clubs? Are the activities of the clubs connected to the local culture? What percentage of your day would you say is rooted in things that help integration?

Just trying to get a clearer picture of things, which is why I am asking.

Of course, not a lot in French at this time; we don't speak French at home. The clubs are French speaking (one sports fun club, the other - neighbours' club). We speak both French and English with the neighbour. Once Uni starts in September, I will have 20+ hours of classes per week. But they didn't refer to the fact of studying at all, just to not working.

The law does not formally require club membership as a sign of integration. What's required: language (mine was a bit above minimum criteria), clean criminal record, no dependency on social benefits, plus working or studying. I added extra things to look more convincing.
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Old 25.08.2021, 20:28
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Re: C permit refusal

I’ve never known working to be a requirement for a C permit.
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Old 25.08.2021, 20:35
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Re: C permit refusal

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I’ve never known working to be a requirement for a C permit.
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2007/758/fr

Art 58a, line d

That's how I understand signs of integration.
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Old 25.08.2021, 20:44
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Re: C permit refusal

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I’ve never known working to be a requirement for a C permit.
Especially VinTa.
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Old 25.08.2021, 21:42
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Re: C permit refusal

I know plenty of stay-at-home mums who have not worked a day since moving to Switzerland, and they have all received a C Permit once their working husbands acquired one. Most of them speak very little German and some even managed to get the language requirement for the C Permit waived or ignored.
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Old 25.08.2021, 22:19
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Re: C permit refusal

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Simply to get a better sense of things, what percentage of your day is rooted solely in speaking, hearing and writing German? Do you communicate with your neighbour (who wrote the letter) in German? Are the clubs German-speaking? What's done at the clubs? Are the activities of the clubs connected to the local culture? What percentage of your day would you say is rooted in things that help integration?


Just trying to get a clearer picture of things, which is why I am asking.
Why German?

OP lives in Lausanne!

Tom
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Old 26.08.2021, 00:30
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Re: C permit refusal

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https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2007/758/fr

Art 58a, line d

That's how I understand signs of integration.
Contest their decision in writing outlaying that you fulfill all the criteria you quote above and more, insisting that the legal department of the Vaud migration authorities look at your file from now on.

This is just a low level clerk’s opinion. Make your way though the administative recourse process and you will eventually get them to issue you a C.
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Old 26.08.2021, 02:17
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Re: C permit refusal

I find it strange that the canton says half the family is integrated and the other half not.

Further, the Swiss standard family has always been the one where the housewife stays home with the kids. Integrating is thus in a sense to emulate that and not stick out. Not sure why swiss authorities are now requiring the opposite to show integration.
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Old 26.08.2021, 08:49
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Re: C permit refusal

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I find it strange that the canton says half the family is integrated and the other half not.

Further, the Swiss standard family has always been the one where the housewife stays home with the kids. Integrating is thus in a sense to emulate that and not stick out. Not sure why swiss authorities are now requiring the opposite to show integration.
They do this on purpose to limit the people eligible for naturalisation.

It's an interpretation of the law that is made to be used on purpose. It happened to me the exact same scenario and few others that I know.
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Old 26.08.2021, 08:52
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Re: C permit refusal

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They do this on purpose to limit the people eligible for naturalisation.

It's an interpretation of the law that is made to be used on purpose. It happened to me the exact same scenario and few others that I know.

Did you manage to get your C permit eventually?
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Old 26.08.2021, 08:55
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Re: C permit refusal

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What's required: language (mine was a bit above minimum criteria), clean criminal record, no dependency on social benefits, plus working or studying.
Were you studying at the time of application? It seems not.

But I agree with the others - I'd appeal the decision. It doesn't seem right on any level. They seem to be treating you as a single person - refusal would make a little more sense then (until you're actually studying).
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Old 26.08.2021, 08:55
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Re: C permit refusal

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Contest their decision in writing outlaying that you fulfill all the criteria you quote above and more, insisting that the legal department of the Vaud migration authorities look at your file from now on.

This is just a low level clerk’s opinion. Make your way though the administative recourse process and you will eventually get them to issue you a C.
If I contest, can they get mad and somehow revoke my husband's permit or kick me out of the country?

Will B permit be less appealing than C when I start job search?
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Old 26.08.2021, 09:00
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Re: C permit refusal

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Were you studying at the time of application? It seems not.

But I agree with the others - I'd appeal the decision. It doesn't seem right on any level. They seem to be treating you as a single person - refusal would make a little more sense then (until you're actually studying).
No, I was not studying at that time - I just applied and got confirmation from the Uni that the accepted me. I will start mid September.

How could they treat me as a single, if I described everything in my motivation letter and submitted docs of my husband? Even if the clerk didn't read my letter, he/she should have noticed salary slips...
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