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  #1  
Old 13.09.2021, 07:49
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Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Office

Hi gents, with your help I'd like to put here together
laws and directives that we and immigration officers need to follow,
so we are not at mercy of each officer whims,
but we have clear rules we can reference to allowing us to assert our
rights when need.
E.g. If they limit your B-permit validity because they don‘t like your accommodation
– be it furnished which is “not standard”, be it WG which is “not standard”.
Where they have support in law for that?
Have you support in law to stop them being your mother?





My desire, to learn this things and how the game is played come from the necessity.
I had my working contract starting on 1st. I‘m EU citizen.
Switzerland has for EU-citizens legal obligation to apply for residency registration before your 1st working day.
As good citizen, I visited migration office far upfront to do the registration.
Me: Good morning Sir, here are my registration documents.
The officer: Good morning, perfect, we will invite you after 1st to take your photos and do your registration. Bye.
Me: Well, I need confirmation from you that I registered now, so I can start working from 1st.
He: We don’t issue any confirmation. Bye.
Did he just didn’t care? Or was he deliberately trying to put obstacles to my 1st working day? I don’t know.
I just know that if I wouldn't made crystal clear that I’m not leaving without this confirmation, I know that I would have many sleepless nights wondering whether I will be able to start on 1st or not.
I live in lovely canton Zug but people on this forum had similar experience in almost each canton.
Rather than collecting here canton specific practices, I hope we can put together useful legislation and stories valid on federal level giving transparency to everybody.



For example secretariat for migration states here that unlimited job
contract for EU citizen = 5 year B-permit.
In-spite of that, cantonal officer decides to shorten it e.g. to 1 year because he doesn’t like the accommodation you chose.
What support in law he has (or has not) for that
and what support in law we have (or have not) to object and organize our personal life ourselves?
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  #2  
Old 13.09.2021, 08:07
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

If you handed in your documents and application form and you are EU, then you can start work. I never got a application confirmation either.
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Old 13.09.2021, 08:28
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

The ‘5-year B permit for unlimited contract or contract equal to or over one year for EU citizens’ is not a legal requirement.

All EUs have the right to is to establish residence, not the type or duration of the permit they will receive (which is ultimately cantonal competence, not the SEM).

There is not much you can contest here if you were given a 1 year B permit as an EU I’m afraid as there is no legal basis stopping the cantonal migrational office from doing so.
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Old 13.09.2021, 09:17
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

If you start this way with them, suggest you familiarise yourself with the "complaints" section here......
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Old 13.09.2021, 09:21
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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E.g. If they limit your B-permit validity because they don‘t like your accommodation
Is this a current concern for you?


Quote:
Me: Well, I need confirmation from you that I registered now, so I can start working from 1st.
You don't. You can just start working. However, some employers don't realise this. A friend of mine was offered a job as an office cleaner, but the employer thought he needed confirmation of permit. So he went to the local offices to ask for one, they explained he doesn't need one.

The kind official called his prospective employer and explained this, but the employer still refused to believe it. My friend got another job elsewhere, where they weren't so utterly stupid.

You need a contract to get a permit, but you don't need a permit to get a contract and start work if you're EU.
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  #6  
Old 13.09.2021, 19:19
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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If you handed in your documents and application form and you are EU, then you can start work. I never got a application confirmation either.

You're right. But then we have schrödinger cat .
You know that you fulfilled your duties.
But you have no way prove it if things go wrong.
To me it sounds like paying developer company to build you house in cash
and kind developer telling you that they don't issue bill - but don't worry. Everything will be fine.
I cannot imagine anybody to accept it.
Worse - I cannot imagine any good reason to don't issue that confirmation



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The ‘5-year B permit for unlimited contract or contract equal to or over one year for EU citizens’ is not a legal requirement..
. Any relevant legal documents/experience on this topic are welcomed . I belive (hope) that Swiss citizens are treated well in EU and nobody harass them with 1-year permits.



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Is this a current concern for you?
. No, it just raised all my alarms and need for getting facts and figures. My real desire lies in exploring the local nature .
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  #7  
Old 13.09.2021, 19:42
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

So what is your problem?

As several said, for an EU citizen it is an easy process.
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  #8  
Old 13.09.2021, 19:45
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

Are you communicating in a local Swiss language when you contact Migrationsamt?
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Old 13.09.2021, 20:00
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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So what is your problem?

As several said, for an EU citizen it is an easy process.

The problem is that migration office decisions seems like wild west where our faith depends on referee you meet and 'standards' he made up.
The goal of this post is to find out where are written the rules of the game
to differentiate between referee whistling a foul,
and referee mading up the 'rules' out of thin air that are no compliant with the ice hockey league we are in.
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  #10  
Old 13.09.2021, 20:10
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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The problem is that migration office decisions seems like wild west where our faith depends on referee you meet and 'standards' he made up.
The goal of this post is to find out where are written the rules of the game
to differentiate between referee whistling a foul,
and referee mading up the 'rules' out of thin air that are no compliant with the ice hockey league we are in.



I don't think the migration office in Zug could be declared as "Wild West"


They have a very high percentage of highly paid foreigners working for companies paying millions in taxes passing through their offices for exactly same reason as you.....
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Old 13.09.2021, 20:34
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

I am not sure I understand your questions, OP. However, here are some links to the rules, where you might perhaps find what you're looking for.

Just in case you're a citizen of Croatia, please note that unfortunately Croations do not enjoy quite the same privileges as other EU citizens moving to Switzerland.
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...r_schweiz.html

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...b_eu_efta.html

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...actsheets.html
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Old 13.09.2021, 20:37
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

I have found that if one doesn't automatically get what one had hoped, at any government office, it can be helpful to remain calm, and ask the person which rules they're using, upon which they've based their decision. Sometimes, they will show me an info-page, or write down the section of the law they're following. Then, I just thank them for the information, and go away and read up that they're reading, and that sometimes helps me to ask better to find out where any information might have gone missing, or to ask better questions, next time I write.
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Old 13.09.2021, 20:54
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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For example secretariat for migration states here that unlimited job
contract for EU citizen = 5 year B-permit.
In-spite of that, cantonal officer decides to shorten it e.g. to 1 year because he doesn’t like the accommodation you chose.
What support in law he has (or has not) for that
and what support in law we have (or have not) to object and organize our personal life ourselves?
Hello.

I assume the employment contract last more than 1 year or unlimited, right?

Concerning the accommodation, this is a chicken and egg story. Usually you find accommodation first, then go ask the permit. Risky? yes, because you compromise yourself into paying rent without securing the permit first. But, as you found out, no way to get a permit without suitable accommodation. That's why finding a room in a shared apartment helps a lot. People take you in, and you have an address to get a permit.

So, let's get to the law. Art 24 from the federal law on foreigners and integration (142.20 LEI https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2007/758/fr):

Quote:
A foreigner can only be admitted with a view to exercising a gainful activity if he has suitable accommodation.
To begin with, the cantonal employee is right. There are suitable and non-suitable accommodations. So, what does suitable/appropié means? Welcome to hell The definition varies according to canton.

Since my French is much better than German I'll use canton Geneva as example. Suitable is appropié in French. On that canton, there are the Regulations for the execution of the general law on housing and tenant protection(RGL https://www.lexfind.ch/tolv/176415/fr). Over there,

Quote:
Over-occupancy : As a general rule, the number of people occupying the accommodation must not exceed the number of rooms in the accommodation.
That means 1 person on a 1.5 room, 2 persons on a 2.5, 4 persons on a 4. But, if I remember well, Geneva is more generous than other cantons. Where the rule is number of rooms - 1 = max occupancy rate of the housing unit. Of course, exceptions apply to families with kids, but that's not your case, right?

My German sucks, so it's your turn to find the canton Zug regulations for the occupancy rate. Rooms, people, exceptions, etc.

From the 1 year limit on your permit, considering your EU citizenship, it can be inferred that it was provisional permit lasting 1 year. You get the permit now, when you wan to renew it, you need to prove suitable accommodation.
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Old 13.09.2021, 20:58
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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They have a very high percentage of highly paid foreigners working for companies paying millions in taxes passing through their offices for exactly same reason as you.....

This posts is not about Zug in particular as the are many expats with similar experience across Switzerland.
This post is about collecting the written rules.

But for sure we can speak about Zug.
Zug is amazing region, people are nice, and migration office is well equiped for your bitcoin payments.
No misunderstanding - I am impressed.



Thank you doropfiz. SEM has very nice documents.
The problem is that I don't know how much they are binding?

My experience showed me they don't respect them much
- either they believe that they will be not called on that or there is another legislation we are missing?
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Old 13.09.2021, 21:44
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

That's golden info Axa .
I'd love to click on thank you on that post but have no idea how to do it?

P.S. here is interesting study on topic of appropriate housing across cantons.
"Integration and Habitat".
2004, However
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Old 14.09.2021, 12:14
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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Just in case you're a citizen of Croatia, please note that unfortunately Croations do not enjoy quite the same privileges as other EU citizens moving to Switzerland.

Not quite yet, but it's coming. 1.1. 2024.
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Old 14.09.2021, 12:20
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

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That's golden info Axa .
I'd love to click on thank you on that post but have no idea how to do it?

P.S. here is interesting study on topic of appropriate housing across cantons.
"Integration and Habitat".
2004, However
You're welcome. So, Zug is no the Wild West, and the cantonal employee is not pulling the rules out of his/her ***. So, you have the lead to find the specific rules for your case. Good luck

I'd just focus the attention to the person who offered you and accommodation that is not useful to get the 5 year B permit. The most charitable interpretation is ignorance of the law. The not-so-charitable interpretation is offering and charging for something that is already not known to be useless. Careful and keep your eyes open.
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Old 14.09.2021, 12:34
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Re: Immigration laws/directives supporting expats in integration with Migration Offic

It is definitely not my experience that Migration office are are law unto themselves. The law and regulations are quite clear, and accessible online.


What is the problem here ?


Tell us your country of origin and your contract information and we will check the rules and tell you if 1 year B is normal/correct.


I highly doubt it has anything to do with your 'style' of apartment choice...unless you wanted to bring your spouse/children with you...
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