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  #1  
Old 26.09.2021, 18:43
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C Permit Denial Question

I have been in Bern for over 5. I was here with my now ex-partner. They turned down my B Permit renewal because we are no longer together. I have a good job with a contract.

I applied for a C Permit through my attorney. She also applied for B Permit for retirees (which I did not ask for). They turned that down because they decided I did not have the finances to retire in Switzerland. My question is simple, can they also turn me down for the C Permit one those grounds? I am US citizen.

Thanks in advance,

kenn
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  #2  
Old 26.09.2021, 19:14
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

Why did she apply for a B permit for retirees when you're working, that makes no sense whatsoever. C permits aren't available for retirees from what I can see.

C permit will depend on how integrated into Swiss life you are: speak the official cantonal language, take part in Swiss activities, etc. The law was changed a few years ago.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...rdernisse.html

Looking at your profile I'm not sure your language skills meet the requirements.
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Old 26.09.2021, 19:20
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

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I have been in Bern for over 5. I was here with my now ex-partner. They turned down my B Permit renewal because we are no longer together. I have a good job with a contract.

I applied for a C Permit through my attorney. She also applied for B Permit for retirees (which I did not ask for). They turned that down because they decided I did not have the finances to retire in Switzerland. My question is simple, can they also turn me down for the C Permit one those grounds? I am US citizen.

Thanks in advance,

kenn
Sorry, but yes. There's no automatic right for a non-EU to receive a C permit, except perhaps when that person is still married to a Swiss or EU national without intent to separate. It sounds like you only received your original permit and job because at the time you were with a Swiss or EU partner. Since your permit was dependent upon your partner's, you no longer have the right to live or work here. Thus why you'd try for an independent permit.

Why did your attorney request a retiree permit? If you apply as a retiree, the authorities assume you will not work so they look at your finances. They've determined you don't have the funds to stay here indefinitely as a non-working retiree.

It may be worthwhile to appeal and ask for an independent B or C permit based on good integration and the ability to support yourself. Show language certificates, salary slips, club memberships, etc.

It might be tricky though - your employer was able to hire you without any special processes or procedures based on your dependent permit. As a non-EU seeking an independent permit, the authorities may want the employer to relist the position and prove that they can't find a Swiss or EU to do the job. The employer might need to go through the "non-EU hiring process" you read about here on EF. Is your employer willing to do that?

I believe the appeals time frame isn't very long so you need to decide what you want and go from there. Good luck!

Edit - Medea is faster

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.09.2021 at 19:31.
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  #4  
Old 26.09.2021, 19:26
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

I have no idea why she applied for a permit I don't want. I will be 65 next year, and although I was clear that I intend to keep working, she applied for it anyway without my knowledge.

I am taking the A2 test in a week. I think I have around a 70% chance of passing. I meet all of the other requirements. But it was made very clear too me that the Swiss Gov't does not want people to request financial help. Which is completely understandable. That's why I'm concerned about things.

I can appeal the denial of the C Permit, but I don't think it's worth it if I know they turn me down and then I owe them "court costs".

I think my best option is for my company to request the B Permit as a specialist, which I am. But since I will be 65 next year, they don't seem to want to go through the trouble of doing that.

I guess that may be my only/best option.
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Old 26.09.2021, 19:31
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

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I have no idea why she applied for a permit I don't want. I will be 65 next year, and although I was clear that I intend to keep working, she applied for it anyway without my knowledge.

.
Working after 65? Best to check your contract if that is possible.

Maybe the one year period until you retire also plays a role.
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Old 26.09.2021, 19:36
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

Unfortunately if your permit was based on your Ex’s, you have no right to remain now. Your company can go through the Non-EU hiring process and get you an independent permit, but that’s about your only option
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Old 26.09.2021, 19:38
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

Yes, that is a big part of the problem. My contract does expire on the last day of the month that I turn 65. I made it clear that I intend to keep working, if not for my current employer, then someone else. But I think in Switzerland, that is not easy.

@Island Money, that is exactly what they told me.

Last edited by klowy; 26.09.2021 at 19:49.
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  #8  
Old 26.09.2021, 19:57
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

Yes, people don't tend to work here past the retirement age so that may well be a problem for you. Also it's doubtful your company would want to go to the time/expense of proving only you can do the job if you're going to be retiring one year on.
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Old 26.09.2021, 20:11
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

There's no legal impediment to your company's extending your contract beyond 65. Their question would be whether that's worth their while.

The permit would hinge on whether the company could and would do the work of proving that you are necessary to their company's business, and/or that your work in the company brings a benefit to the Swiss economy. If they can, then they'd have have a chance of getting you a permit.

Unfortunately, it's not enough to just be a specialist in something in which many others - all through Switzerland and the whole of the EU - are also such a specialist.

There's a reasonable chance if your speciality is rare, or if you hold an unusual combination of qualifications, knowledge, skills, languages, international connections and experience, such that your role is key. Arguments for this include, for example, that having you there enables the company to keep the project up and running, to press on with an innovation, to close a deal, to continue to employ several other people, or to expand their profits.
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Old 26.09.2021, 20:21
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

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I have been in Bern for over 5. I was here with my now ex-partner. They turned down my B Permit renewal because we are no longer together. I have a good job with a contract.

I applied for a C Permit through my attorney. She also applied for B Permit for retirees (which I did not ask for). They turned that down because they decided I did not have the finances to retire in Switzerland. My question is simple, can they also turn me down for the C Permit one those grounds? I am US citizen.

Thanks in advance,

kenn
Well, they did. So the simple answer is „yes“…
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Old 26.09.2021, 20:33
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

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I was here with my now ex-partner. They turned down my B Permit renewal because we are no longer together.
This.

Tom
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Old 26.09.2021, 22:21
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

If you are well integrated, you can apply for a B permit on hardship/compassionate grounds. I know two people who've done this who otherwise wouldn't have been able to stay.

However, I seem to recall some rule about once being here for five years there's a little more security. Don't know. Best ask your attorney.
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Old 26.09.2021, 22:53
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

Why did you hire an attorney? That just pisses them off. Go in person to your Greffe and ask them.
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Old 27.09.2021, 10:07
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

My company hired the attorney to make things easier

Does anyone think I should appeal the C Permit rejection?
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Old 27.09.2021, 10:29
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

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Why did you hire an attorney? That just pisses them off. Go in person to your Greffe and ask them.
A friend of mine used a specialist immigration lawyer. The officials weren't that fond of her, but nonetheless he's was granted a B permit on compassionate grounds. A lawyer knows the process inside out, so for exception cases it makes sense.
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Old 27.09.2021, 23:13
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

No advice to offer. Just want to say best of luck to you. I hope it turns out okay.

-Dr. M.
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Old 28.09.2021, 11:46
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

Of course each to their own, but reading all the info throughout the thread, am wondering why you would want to stay?

Seems there is no or minimal language skills, no integration, no family/partner, job will disappear at 65, no sufficient savings or retirement income to live in retirement, etc. If you read some other threads there is high unemployment here in later years, so I would think finding a job after 65 would be near impossible as it is the legal retirement age. Unless you are really special, I would not rely on this. I think the authorities know this as well. I think the lawyer was correct in checking the retirement route as if you do not have the means to stay here at 65 then you would be on some sort of social help that would not be permissible.

Good luck if you want to stay but I don't see anything strongly tying you here and you are probably much better off in a lower cost country in retirement if you have not significant earnings here; heck, even with significant earnings here, many cannot afford to retire here.
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Old 28.09.2021, 12:19
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

I have an A2 in German. Not great, but as you know, no in here speaks the language I'm learning.

As far as integration, I'm not sure why you think that. I have a lot of friends here, none of them are from English speaking countries, I belong to a swim team and I play in clubs (I'm also a musician).

I had a partner, but yes, that is done. As far as retirement, I have enough for probably any other country. But Switzerland is one of the wealthiest countries in the western world. But the amount here, as you mentioned, is quite different from other countries where this wouldn't even be a question.

BUT - I get your point. I love living here and and don't want to leave. But at this point, it seems there is no choice.

I appreciate your honesty. That's what I need to read.
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Old 28.09.2021, 12:19
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

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Of course each to their own, but reading all the info throughout the thread, am wondering why you would want to stay?

Seems there is no or minimal language skills, no integration, no family/partner, job will disappear at 65, no sufficient savings or retirement income to live in retirement, etc. If you read some other threads there is high unemployment here in later years, so I would think finding a job after 65 would be near impossible as it is the legal retirement age. Unless you are really special, I would not rely on this. I think the authorities know this as well. I think the lawyer was correct in checking the retirement route as if you do not have the means to stay here at 65 then you would be on some sort of social help that would not be permissible.

Good luck if you want to stay but I don't see anything strongly tying you here and you are probably much better off in a lower cost country in retirement if you have not significant earnings here; heck, even with significant earnings here, many cannot afford to retire here.
How much of a downer are you!

I can think of plenty of reasons the OP might want to stay.

OP has been here more than five years and built themselves a life here. It may have been a dream from long ago to live here. They might loves the city they live in, have a nice apartment, enjoy the cuisine, culture, landscape. They might appreciate the public transport, health system, government and political systems.

They may have many good friends and contacts completely aside from their ex. They might be involved in plenty of non-work activities. They may feel they have plenty still to offer here.

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Old 28.09.2021, 12:56
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Re: C Permit Denial Question

My wife and I applied for C-permits in February of 2015 and I voluntarily left my job to retire early in April 2015. My employer filed the form indicating that I was not longer employed with them. In May 2015 we were interviewed by a local official at the police station here in Lugano. I brought to our interview a one-page summary of our financial position, including current income from investments and projected income from a Swiss pension and AVS, as well as from my country of citizenship. This was not asked for, but I was concerned about the unemployment issue.

I asked if there would be a problem with my being unemployed and younger than the official retirement age. He looked at the sheet, smiled, and said, "No, it's always about the money." We aren't rich, by any means, but appeared to have enough to satisfy him that we weren't likely to go on the dole here.

Got our C-permits a month later. We took them out for a walk on along the lake to celebrate (leashed of course).

Renewed in 2020 without any problems.

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