Hi,

just about to go for a C permit but I was wondering what precise advantages it can offer me? I've heard that it's possible to leave Switzerland for up to 2 years but retain the permit (with permission of course) by continuing to pay AHV and such.

Anyone got any info or URLs that could be of help?

cheers,

Gav

Hi Gav,

I haven't done much research on this, so take everything I say with a pinch of salt...

Like you said it enables you to leave the country for an extended period (like 2 years I think) without losing it. In this way much better than a B permit.

I know that whenever you apply for things you have to say what kind of permit you have, and having a C permit may result in less persecution. For example you might escape the CHF500/1000 deposit on your land line which you probably had to pay with your B permit.

I've done checks on comparis.ch for car insurance and they always ask for your nationality and your type of permit. I found that almost always car insurance was cheaper if you put in that you were Swiss. Sometimes some nationalities are more expensive than others. Too bad I've never had an accident and have faithfully paid my insurances for years, I still have to pay more for my insurance than a Swiss. Maybe the C permit will make a difference? I've never been motivated enough to check

Probably the biggest difference you'll notice is that you'll get to pay your taxes like the Swiss do - i.e. it won't be deducted at source. At first you'll feel like this is a big honour, and you'll have so much more money to play around with. After reality sets in and you find out how it really works, you won't be so happy and will start wishing for your B permit again....But on the plus side it will no longer take 3 years to process your tax returns for a refund, so you can tell yourself that it is now far more efficient

I went in and applied for my C permit the other day. It was fairly unexciting, they did what they usually do - take my permit away and tell me I'll have it again in a couple of months. I did what I usually do and asked them what was the point of them making me carry this thing when they keep taking it for 2 months every time it has to be renewed. They did what they usually do and shrugged their shoulders and smiled. I love my gemeinde - poor innocent slaves in a huge bureaucracy.

I was a little surprised though - the process seemed easy. I had a German ex-girlfriend a while back and for her the process of getting her C permit was not pleasant. She had to get a printout showing that she was debt free from everywhere where she'd lived in the last 5 years. She'd lived in Zurich but in different places. She had to visit something like 5 different Kreisbüro and pay them to give her a print out showing that there were no debts recorded against her name. Every office had different opening hours, and each one required different standards of documentation, but they all charged her money . She had to take an entire day off work and managed to get them all done. She wasn't happy...

But who knows, maybe such surprises are in store for me as well, or maybe everything has been made a little easier with these bi-lateral agreements? I'll keep you posted!

I still like showing my permit to my friends in other countries. What's that? Oh - you mean that - it's an alien's pass. A what? You know - a foreigner's pass? Really, are you supposed to like carry that around or something?

Anyway - congratuations - you are slowly moving up the ranks!

Does anyone else have any amusing stories about their Ausländerausweis? Anyone found that the C made a difference to them? (note to those on the L - take it to the complaints corner we know what you are going to say!!!)

Mark

Hi,

At the moment I have a B (EFTA), which is pretty nice. Much nicer than the old B before the bilateral-agreement. I don't have to go in to renew it any more, my taxes are taken directly from my salary, which is nice. I can also work in any Canton (before it was limited just to Zurich). For me, with a B EFTA there are basically very few advantages to having a C that I can see.

Of course, you have to bow and scrape before people who *do* have C permits, as a 'lesser mortal'. And you don't get to skip ahead in queues like C permit holders can.

Hi bsiggers,

I heard that if you have a C you can start to slide your skis in front of other skis in the lift queues and smoke joints openly in the middle of the piste...

Well you will soon have to be bowing and scraping to Gav and I in that case.... I agree with you, except for a few small points. I had a B (EFTA) which expired in 2008. I too was thrilled to see that I now had the freedom to leave the canton, but the novelty soon wore off...

One advantage to not paying your tax at source is if you live in a very low tax gemeinde (like I do). Then at least you don't end up overpaying and waiting 2-3 years for them to give you a refund.

Of course the other thing is what if you want to go someone else for more than 3 months... Then a B can be a bit of a problem.

Mark

Yes - that's specifically why I've applied for it. Otherwise, the new improved EG/EFTA B permit is pretty much good enough.

Hmm, hope it comes through before I leave my job... Still 2.5 months before the quit date, so that should be enough even for the worst bureaucracy.


Gav

hi gav,

at this site http://www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?L=3

which is Federal office for Migration you might find more info...i did not looked thru, but it has all kind of info regarding applying for swiss nationality, work, etc...try clicking on "I want to"...
its in english but it has regular deutch and french as well
I also think that with visa C you are able to open your own business...
i will ask my husband and let you know...he knows exactly but its not at home right now...

That's quite a useful site - thanks for the info. It's going into my bookmarks.

cheers,

Gavan

If you are an EU-citizen a B-permit is fine for starting a business. Also, you don't need a B-permit to stop paying tax at source. If you earn 120K or more and your employer agrees, that can be sorted too.

Now there's something I didn't know. One would think that employers would prefer NOT to have to deduct tax at source. Maybe the problem is that employers just don't know this? I live in a low tax gemeinde, so for me not paying at source would have meant not waiting 2-3 years for the refunds. I wish I'd known that earlier! Won't matter soon - I'll have the C anyway.

Mark

Hi AllYou can also start a business here without the need for a Treuhand, although probably advisable to have one.
Ciao
Daver

p.s. I heard you could also have a mistress without the wife objecting

Really?? Must only be true with Swiss wives

Just want to pick up on Spamchek's comment. Be very careful about the different status between swiss/C permit "ordinary taxation" and B permit holders "exemption from withholding tax".

You are right that with a B permit and income over 120k you can apply to not have withholding tax deducted if your employer underwrites your potential default if you do a runner. So the timing of your payments (and paying the right amount from the outset) are the same, but this is not actually the same status as a C permit holder... this is particularly important if you are changing cantons, because as a C permit holder you are taxed for the whole year where you live on 31 December, but under the B permit rule you are taxed pro-rata temporis (under Kreisschreiben no 14).

Trust me. In 2001 I moved from Neuchatel to Schwyz and ended up paying tax at an effective rate of 35% not 20% for the year... it was very painful and I took advice from two of the best tax lawyers in Switzerland. It sucks and is unfair, but hey that's Switzerland sometimes.

You also move to real "ordinary taxation" if you i) buy property, ii) marry a swiss.

Daniel

I guess the figure if you buy property or marry a Swiss you won't be able to leave in a hurry :-)

Just to clarify one small point - moving Gemeinde within the canton (at least in Zurich) you pay your gemeinde tax at the rate set in gemeinde where you were at the start of the year. Same for B and C permit holders. I didn't know there was a difference for canton tax, but now I do. I've never moved canton - on my first B permit I wasn't allowed to leave canton Zurich anyway...

But the good news for people about to get their C permit - the process was really easy. I went and gave up my B and an astonishing 8 days later a letter arrived telling me that I must present myself at the gemeinde with my passport, a photo and 65 francs - within 8 days. Yes, I'm sure it was ultra urgent, and it absolutely had to be collected within 8 days, but I only saw the letter 2 weeks later (I was lazy with opening post). So I went there, paid my money and picked it up. There was absolutely zero hassle.

So what can I say? Maybe I was just lucky, but if I remember the hoops my ex had to go through to get hers a few years back, it certainly wasn't so simple...

Now let's see if my car insurance gets any cheaper... Probably not...Need a passport for that to happen...

Gav - got yours yet?

Mark

I'm in a similar situation. I am entitled to a C at the end of this month, however my EFTA B does not expire until 2008 (they are valid for five years since the bilateral agreements with the EU). As an employee, there may be no obvious financial benefits for me (ceased paying Quellensteuer a couple of years ago) but it does at least go to show you are permanently settled here. Many agencies and employees still stipulate a Swiss Passport or C Permit in their job adverts. Let's not forget, there are still B permit quotas in place, and officially an Arbeitgeber 'must' give precedence to a Swiss/C holder in the case of him having both a B permit and a Swiss canidate both being suitable and equally qualified for the job.

Simon, that used to be the case but officially this has been ruled out. As recently seen in SwissNews:

The agreement – the second phase of the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons between Switzerland and the EU - went into effect on June 1, 2004. For citizens of the EU and European Free Trade Agreement countries, the main advantage is that they will be treated equally to any Swiss citizen in hiring decisions. Their potential employer no longer has to prove that a Swiss citizen cannot be found for the job. Giving preference to a Swiss is prohibited.

In other words, the difference is now between Swiss / EU citizens vs non-EU citizens.

Yup - picked it up last week. Took about 2 weeks to process and it was then just a case of going in with a photo, passport and cash. Incredibly simple, especially compared to the hassle of getting my first B permit which took them about 6 months to get right.


Gav

That's only partly correct as there are still quotas in place. Until 2007 there is an annual allocation for B/EFTA/EU permits of 15'300. For non B-EFTA/EU it is, and will remain after 2007 4000/annum. Whether or not these limits will ever be reached remains to be seen.

What is a Treuhand? I'd like to set up a business in Switzerland but I only have a B-permit (non-EEA). Is there any way for me to do this?

A good location explaining the details for non-swiss to establish a business in switzerland (in german, unfortunately) is here:

http://www.gruenden.ch/internet/gruenden/de/bsp/ausl.html

For a quick translation, it's basically not so easy if you have a non-EU B. It sounds like you need to show you have previous experience running a business, provable qualifications to show you're capable of running a business, and a exceptionally good business plan. It's a bit vague.

Thanks bsiggers. Maybe I'll work on it for next year!