Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31.03.2009, 17:07
jonnyt's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 65
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts
jonnyt has made some interesting contributions
National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

If you are a British national and plan on returning to the UK after living and working in Switzerland (or any other foreign coutry) you have the option of topping up your National Insurance for the years that you are abroad.

Doing this means that you will be able to retire and claim UK state pension x years earlier where x is the number of years you are abroad.
As far as I know, the maximum number of years of NI contributions is 30, so you may not be interested if you're only here a year but if you stay here 5 or 10 years then go back, it is probably worth paying the nominal amount for your missed years.

The reason I write this now is because the price of topping up is currently jumping from £421.20 to £627.60 from April 6, so you may want to sort it out in the next couple of days to save yourself 50%

You can go here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/nico/ni38.pdf and fill in pages 37 and 38 and fax it to +44 191 225 3540, +44 191 225 4215 or +44 191 225 7800 and if you include a note asking for a 'statement of arrears' for the previous time you've been abroad, you'll be charged the lower rate if they receive it before this Sunday.

It's a pretty self-explanitory form but on section 6, you'll want to tick 'Class 2' (meaning you paid NI till you moved here and started working over here soon after) as it is much cheaper than the other options. For section 7, you'll need to tick 'Annual Payment' if you want to be able to fax the form to them in time as if you pick Direct Debit (for future contributions) they won't accept a fax and you'll have to mail them a copy as DD's need your original signature. That option may not reach them in time to get the lower rate.

I'm not a tax or NI expert, so will unlikely be able to field any questions on this subject, I was just recently made aware of the price increase and thought I'd pass it on. If you want further info, the http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/index.htm website is pretty good and includes everything you'll need.

john
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank jonnyt for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 31.03.2009, 17:24
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,123
Groaned at 48 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,431 Times in 1,156 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

Even if you do not go back upon retirement age, by keeping up with your N.I. payments, you will receive a state pension.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31.03.2009, 17:29
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,123
Groaned at 48 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,431 Times in 1,156 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

presumably then payments for 2009 onwards will be gbp 627.60 no matter what, right?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 31.03.2009, 17:33
jonnyt's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 65
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts
jonnyt has made some interesting contributions
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

I'm not sure about the ruling for 2010 onwards, but I know that personally, I'll be paying the lower amount for 2006, 07, 08 and 09 now I've faxed the form off today. So even if it goes up in the future, I'll have saved over £800
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31.03.2009, 21:21
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,157
Groaned at 295 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 8,398 Times in 3,708 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

Are you absolutely sure you need to do this?

I know in my own case, Ireland/Switzerland, they definitely count payments made in both countries when calculating pension entitlements. Thus no voluntary contributions are required. This is an EU level thing, so I would expect that it must apply to UK citizens as well....

Also, a UK friend of mine looked into it last year and concluded that it was no point. If I remember correctly the reason was because you can't insure the same period twice - if you pay Swiss AHV in a given year and make a voluntary contribution as well for the same period it counts only once in the pension calculation - I think that is what he said.

Best Regards,

Jim.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 31.03.2009, 21:27
swissbob
 
Posts: n/a
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

Quote:
View Post
Are you absolutely sure you need to do this?

I know in my own case, Ireland/Switzerland, they definitely count payments made in both countries when calculating pension entitlements. Thus no voluntary contributions are required. This is an EU level thing, so I would expect that it must apply to UK citizens as well....

Also, a UK friend of mine looked into it last year and concluded that it was no point. If I remember correctly the reason was because you can't insure the same period twice - if you pay Swiss AHV in a given year and make a voluntary contribution as well for the same period it counts only once in the pension calculation - I think that is what he said.

Best Regards,

Jim.
I concur. Bilateral agreements are in place that appear to make this a pointless exercise unless you go to a country outside the EU where such an agreement does not exist.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 31.03.2009, 21:51
Blonaybear's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blonay
Posts: 1,593
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 836 Times in 432 Posts
Blonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

I paid voluntary contributions when I left the UK and I now receive a full UK pension plus Swiss AVS for the years I have contributed here.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31.03.2009, 23:19
jonnyt's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 65
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts
jonnyt has made some interesting contributions
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

According to the two representatives I've spoken to at the Inland Revenue and the one that my wife spoke to, there is no agreement with any country at all. You are eligible to claim full UK pension when you have paid 30 years of National Insurance contributions. What you pay in other countries is of no relevance.
As I've said, I'm no expert but I have spoken at length with people who are and have read a bunch of documentation and I have never come across anything that mentioned the possibility of bilateral agreements with other countries.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.04.2009, 06:51
swissbob
 
Posts: n/a
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

Quote:
View Post
According to the two representatives I've spoken to at the Inland Revenue and the one that my wife spoke to, there is no agreement with any country at all. You are eligible to claim full UK pension when you have paid 30 years of National Insurance contributions. What you pay in other countries is of no relevance.
As I've said, I'm no expert but I have spoken at length with people who are and have read a bunch of documentation and I have never come across anything that mentioned the possibility of bilateral agreements with other countries.
I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert and this is another legislative minefield .

Leaflet NI38 clearly indicates the bilateral agreements with EU countries and other countries including Switzerland.

Leaflet NIM33015 states that contributions can only be made in one country.

Leaflet SA29 is the important one. Pages 28/29 have the relevent information.

I hope that helps, rather than muddies the water.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01.04.2009, 09:24
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,064
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 636 Times in 379 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Quote:
View Post
The reason I write this now is because the price of topping up is currently jumping from £421.20 to £627.60 from April 6, so you may want to sort it out in the next couple of days to save yourself 50%

You can go here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/nico/ni38.pdf and fill in pages 37 and 38 and fax it to +44 191 225 3540, +44 191 225 4215 or +44 191 225 7800 and if you include a note asking for a 'statement of arrears' for the previous time you've been abroad, you'll be charged the lower rate if they receive it before this Sunday.
Where do the figures of £421.20 to £627.60 come from? I cannot find them.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01.04.2009, 10:24
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,123
Groaned at 48 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,431 Times in 1,156 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

So, when in switzerland i have to pay mandatory social security contributions which, if i am still here at 65, i would expect to receive a swiss pension.

I also am paying volountarily my UK National Insurance and would expect to receive an English state pension in addition to the Swiss one, upon retirement age.

Is this in fact not true?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01.04.2009, 10:45
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,064
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 636 Times in 379 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Quote:
View Post
So, when in switzerland i have to pay mandatory social security contributions which, if i am still here at 65, i would expect to receive a swiss pension.

I also am paying volountarily my UK National Insurance and would expect to receive an English state pension in addition to the Swiss one, upon retirement age.

Is this in fact not true?
I dont know the answer, but I look at it as the following. If you have contributed into both systems, then upon retirement you will get the worth of your contributions from both systems, bearing in mind that a lot of us started off in the UK and if we can get a UK pension with 30 years contributions then it has to be better than getting nothing, especially if we have paid into the system for many years. I am confused regarding the amount quoted for class 2 and what the amount quoted for class 3 contributions are.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01.04.2009, 20:22
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,157
Groaned at 295 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 8,398 Times in 3,708 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

Quote:
View Post
I paid voluntary contributions when I left the UK and I now receive a full UK pension plus Swiss AVS for the years I have contributed here.
Interesting, but for which periods are you talking about - the rules were different before the bi-laterals?

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01.04.2009, 21:54
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,157
Groaned at 295 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 8,398 Times in 3,708 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Hi There,

I did some more digging over on the Irish pensions site and found a clear statement that say for people who have worked in more than one EU/EEA country or Switzerland, their pension situation is governed by EU regulations 1408/71 and 574/72 and a very useful site reference:

http://ec.europa.eu/employment_socia.../homepage.psml

From this site it seems that:

- All contributions have to be taken into account when considering if someone is entitled to a pension

- If you fail to qualify in this way for a full pension, there are further measures to ensure you get the max. amount available

- There are rules to prevent you from getting double benefits

All of this only applies to pension that start to be paid out after the rules came into play, earlier pension awards follow previous rules.

Good luck,

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02.04.2009, 14:50
Blonaybear's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blonay
Posts: 1,593
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 836 Times in 432 Posts
Blonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond reputeBlonaybear has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase

Quote:
View Post
Interesting, but for which periods are you talking about - the rules were different before the bi-laterals?

Jim
Came to Switzerland 1989 and retired in 2004.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03.04.2009, 10:05
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,064
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 636 Times in 379 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

I just spoke to International Revenue and Customs in the UK on +44 845 915 4811. They recommended that I get a pension forecast first before doing anything. You have to have had 30 years coverage to be eligible for a Uk pension. If you return to the UK to draw your pension, contributions from other member states ie Switzerland will be taken into account and in this case your pension will be a percentage of UK and Swiss contributions. I guess if you draw a pension in Switzerland, you can also ask for the UK contributions to be taken into account. The form to kick this off from a UK perspective to look at your years of contributions is form CA3638. This can be downloaded from http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ca3638.pdf Fill it out, pop it in the post and then look at your options. They also mentioned that the Class 2 contributions would not rise for tax year 09...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03.04.2009, 10:09
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,064
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 636 Times in 379 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Quote:
View Post
So, when in switzerland i have to pay mandatory social security contributions which, if i am still here at 65, i would expect to receive a swiss pension.

I also am paying volountarily my UK National Insurance and would expect to receive an English state pension in addition to the Swiss one, upon retirement age.

Is this in fact not true?
Krlock3 - Give the International Pensions Unit a call in the UK to see where you stand. Their number is +44 845 915 4811
I would be interested to hear their reply. If you contribute into the two systems, will you get a larger Pension pot - What do the bilaterial agreements say on the subject?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03.04.2009, 10:25
cricketer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: near zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,051 Times in 427 Posts
cricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Not sure I understand this post...

I had a pension forecast and found that I have done my 30 years and do not need to contribute anything more. So I expect to get a full UK pension in due course.
I continue to pay here into the Swiss system and therefore expect to get a Swiss pension also in addition to my UK pension.
The two are seperate and one should not affect the other.



Quote:
View Post
I just spoke to International Revenue and Customs in the UK on +44 845 915 4811. They recommended that I get a pension forecast first before doing anything. You have to have had 30 years coverage to be eligible for a Uk pension. If you return to the UK to draw your pension, contributions from other member states ie Switzerland will be taken into account and in this case your pension will be a percentage of UK and Swiss contributions. I guess if you draw a pension in Switzerland, you can also ask for the UK contributions to be taken into account. The form to kick this off from a UK perspective to look at your years of contributions is form CA3638. This can be downloaded from http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ca3638.pdf Fill it out, pop it in the post and then look at your options. They also mentioned that the Class 2 contributions would not rise for tax year 09...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03.04.2009, 11:48
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,064
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 636 Times in 379 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Quote:
View Post
Not sure I understand this post...

I had a pension forecast and found that I have done my 30 years and do not need to contribute anything more. So I expect to get a full UK pension in due course.
I continue to pay here into the Swiss system and therefore expect to get a Swiss pension also in addition to my UK pension.
The two are seperate and one should not affect the other.
Please clarify with the Revenue, since everyones case is different.

These are my thoughts, they could be totally wrong.

There are bilatural agreements in place and it depends upon when your 30 years finished as to how your final pension will be divided between the UK and Switzerland.

I believe if you retire in Switzerland, the Swiss Authorities will ask the UK authorities to contribute to your Swiss pension. Similarly if you retire in the UK the UK authorities will ask the Swiss authorities for contributions. This was mentioned today by the UK Revenue when I called them.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03.04.2009, 12:23
cricketer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: near zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,051 Times in 427 Posts
cricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: National Insurance Contributions Price Increase (UK)

Have just called the UK and clarified this (I was rather alarmed).
There will only be a joint assessment if the total contribution is less than the full amount of contributions you can make. In the UK this is now 30 years. So if like me you have contributed 30 years in the UK then there is no need for any bilateral agreement to kick in as I have earned a full UK pension which will be paid at retirement age.This is guaranteed and cast in stone. Any additional contributions to the Swiss system will be paid in addition to the full UK pension.
Now if I had only 20years in the UK then the bilateral agreement would kick in if I retired in Switzerland and both the UK and Swiss contributions would be rolled up into one pension.
See here for the detail on the bilateral agreement

www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/osc.htm





Quote:
View Post
Please clarify with the Revenue, since everyones case is different.

These are my thoughts, they could be totally wrong.

There are bilatural agreements in place and it depends upon when your 30 years finished as to how your final pension will be divided between the UK and Switzerland.

I believe if you retire in Switzerland, the Swiss Authorities will ask the UK authorities to contribute to your Swiss pension. Similarly if you retire in the UK the UK authorities will ask the Swiss authorities for contributions. This was mentioned today by the UK Revenue when I called them.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cricketer for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
national insurance




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Health insurance price increase. Colonelboris Complaints corner 4 02.01.2009 12:34
Bebbi Sagg [garbage bags] Price Increase in Baselstadt jmiddlebrook Daily life 2 06.12.2008 18:46
Swiss National Insurance Number - should I have one? kodokan Permits/visas/government 6 23.11.2008 14:36
Garlic Price Increase snowdiver Daily life 73 09.06.2008 17:06
insurance plans with price as no object hornetzoo Insurance 1 19.10.2007 23:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0